Why were the Chinese able to destroy the rule of conquerors and then rule over them, while many European peoples were assimilated by the conquerors?

Why were the Chinese able to destroy the rule of conquerors and then rule over them, while many European peoples were assimilated by the conquerors?

https://preview.redd.it/cc8qpjt3rzah1.png?width=699&format=png&auto=webp&s=af9e8f8bf973cb01309189ff83ad13464ae5d3b0

I've been studying Chinese history recently and have discovered a very interesting phenomenon.

Historically, China was conquered twice, with the entire country occupied. The Mongols and Manchus established the Yuan and Qing dynasties.

After the Chinese destroyed Mongol rule, they repeatedly invaded the grasslands and even raped women of the Mongol royal family.

In the mid-19th century, the Chinese carried out ethnic cleansing against the Manchus.

In the early 20th century, the Chinese launched another massacre against the Manchus, ultimately bringing Manchu rule to a complete end.

However, the Chinese were able to destroy the conquerors' rule each time. The Ming dynasty destroyed the Yuan dynasty, and the ROC destroyed the Qing dynasty.

Furthermore, the Chinese were never assimilated by the Manchus and Mongols; in fact, they even carried out ethnic cleansing as retaliation after destroying their rule.

To this day, the Chinese still rule Inner Mongolia and Manchuria.

But many European ethnic groups seem to have been completely assimilated by their conquerors.

The most classic examples are the French and British.

Many French and British are descendants of Celts, but they were conquered by Germanic and Latin peoples long ago, yet they never destroyed the rule of these invaders.

They were even assimilated by the conquerors.

Including the Romans, and even many Germans today claiming to be Roman, I find it as ridiculous as a Chinese person claiming to be Mongolian.

To be conquered, and then worship the conqueror?

The same is true for the Anatolians. While most are descendants of the original inhabitants, with very few true Turkic descendants, they now proudly identify as Turkic.

This situation is common in Europe: assimilation by conquerors, inability to destroy their rule.

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 3 days ago

Why were the Chinese able to destroy the rule of conquerors and then rule over them, while many European peoples were assimilated by the conquerors?

https://preview.redd.it/i4f6wtkhozah1.png?width=699&format=png&auto=webp&s=b76d29f218d5032cda82fdfc6daf1c89c9827bba

I've been studying Chinese history recently and have discovered a very interesting phenomenon.

Historically, China was conquered twice, with the entire country occupied. The Mongols and Manchus established the Yuan and Qing dynasties.

After the Chinese destroyed Mongol rule, they repeatedly invaded the grasslands and even raped women of the Mongol royal family.

In the mid-19th century, the Chinese carried out ethnic cleansing against the Manchus.

In the early 20th century, the Chinese launched another massacre against the Manchus, ultimately bringing Manchu rule to a complete end.

However, the Chinese were able to destroy the conquerors' rule each time. The Ming dynasty destroyed the Yuan dynasty, and the ROC destroyed the Qing dynasty.

Furthermore, the Chinese were never assimilated by the Manchus and Mongols; in fact, they even carried out ethnic cleansing as retaliation after destroying their rule.

To this day, the Chinese still rule Inner Mongolia and Manchuria.

But many European ethnic groups seem to have been completely assimilated by their conquerors.

The most classic examples are the French and British.

Many French and British are descendants of Celts, but they were conquered by Germanic and Latin peoples long ago, yet they never destroyed the rule of these invaders.

They were even assimilated by the conquerors.

Including the Romans, and even many Germans today claiming to be Roman, I find it as ridiculous as a Chinese person claiming to be Mongolian.

To be conquered, and then worship the conqueror?

The same is true for the Anatolians. While most are descendants of the original inhabitants, with very few true Turkic descendants, they now proudly identify as Turkic.

This situation is common in Europe: assimilation by conquerors, inability to destroy their rule.

reddit.com
u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 3 days ago
▲ 0 r/ww2

Why was the most powerful Japan during World War II, still unable to conquer the weakest China? (Before American intervention, Japan was already deeply mired in the war.)

Before the United States intervened, Japan was already deeply mired in the Chinese battlefield.

Many Chinese provinces were still not occupied or controlled by Japan.

Looking back at all time history, was Japan truly stronger than China for only 50-60 years?(1890s-1940s)

At the end of the 19th century, Japan completed the Meiji Restoration (modernization), while China remained a backward agricultural country.

Comparison during World War II:

Japan: Industrialized, highly educated, wealthy, and united.

China: A backward agricultural country; many Chinese were illiterate and starving; the country was embroiled in decades of civil war (warlord conflicts and the conflict between the Kuomintang and the CCP).

Even under these circumstances, Japan still couldn't conquer China.

Before the United States intervened in the war, they were already bogged down in the Chinese theater.

They boasted of conquering Shanghai in three days, but failed to do so even after three months. They claimed they could conquer China in three months, but ended up spending several years mired in the war.

Battle of Baekgang - Wikipedia

Imjin War - Wikipedia

Interestingly, during the Tang and Ming dynasties, the Japanese army challenged China twice, but both times ended in defeat.

During World War II, Japan was at its most powerful in history, while China was perhaps at its weakest.

In other words, World War II was the only period in which Japan had a chance of success.

Since then, and even today, Japan's military and even politics have been heavily influenced by the United States, so discussing this topic is no longer meaningful.

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 3 days ago
▲ 787 r/MapPorn

Song Dynasty—often criticized by the Chinese for its mediocre military—but single-handedly resisted the peak Mongol Empire for nearly half a century.

Song dynasty :(960-1279) It is also the historical background of the video game Where Winds Meet.

It was closest to the Mongols, but it was also the last region they conquered, and the most difficult.

The regions that the Mongols failed to conquer were almost all due to geographical location.

Even at its peak, its territory was only 2.7 million square kilometers, far smaller than that of the Han, Tang, Ming, and Sui

If we only consider military strength, the Song wouldn't even rank among the top five Chinese dynasties.

This dynasty was renowned for its economy, art, and culture. But even at its peak, it only ruled over about 75% of traditional China.

The Qin, Han, Sui, Tang, and Ming dynasties easily exemplify this; several Chinese dynasties possessed greater military power.

Powerful Chinese dynasties were capable of conquering or driving out large nomadic empires.

Like Han conquered the Xiongnu, the Tang conquered the Turks, and the Ming expelled the Mongols.

It must be admitted that the Chinese performed the best in wars against nomadic peoples.

Yet, the Song resisted the invasions of the Mongol Empire at its zenith for nearly half a century.

Möngke Khan (grandson of Genghis Khan) even died in the war to conquer the Song. The Mongols gathered a large number of Turks, Arabs, Persians, and rebellious Chinese to finally complete the conquest.

The fall of the Song also marked the first time that ancient Chinese civilization was truly conquered (the entire country was occupied by a foreign power).

Time required for the Mongol Empire to conquer territories

1. Khwarezmia Turkic Persian: 3 years (1219-1221)

2. Jurchen Jin Dynasty: 23 years (1211-1234)

3. Rus' Principality Russian: 3 years (1237-1240)

4. Abbasid Caliphate Arab: Several weeks (1258)

5、Song Dynasty Chinese:45 years (1235-1279)

List of Military Achievements of Major Chinese Dynasties (excluding periods of division):

  1. Qin Dynasty (The first dynasty to unify Chinese civilization, highly militarized, conquered the south, defeated the Xiongnu and annexed the Ordos region)
  2. Han Dynasty (A superpower of the classical era, expanding China's territory from 2 million square kilometers to 6.3 million square kilometers, conquering the Xiongnu and almost all surrounding peoples)
  3. Jin Dynasty (Ended the Three Kingdoms period, briefly unified China, but the imperial family's penchant for internal strife led to nearly 300 years of division in China)
  4. Sui Dynasty (Ended the Northern and Southern Dynasties period, defeated and divided the Turkic Khaganate, annexed Qinghai Province)
  5. Tang Dynasty (A superpower of the medieval era, conquered the Turkic Khaganate, at its peak expanded China's territory to 12 million square kilometers)
    1. Song Dynasty (at its peak, it only ruled 75% of traditional China and was ultimately destroyed by the Mongols)
  6. Yuan Dynasty (not a true Chinese dynasty, but a branch of the Mongol Empire)
  7. Ming Dynasty (It was undoubtedly a superpower in its early days. at its peak, it expelled the Mongols and repeatedly invaded the Mongolian steppes, severely damaging them. It twice captured the Mongol capital, conquered Yunnan, Guizhou, Manchuria, and briefly recovered Vietnam for 20 years)
  8. Qing Dynasty (not a true Chinese dynasty, established by the Manchus. Although its territory was vast, during its rule, China became a technologically backward Third World country for the first time. In short, it was large but very backward, and was repeatedly invaded and defeated by Western countries and even small countries like Japan.

The strongest dynasties were undoubtedly the Han and Tang, followed by the Ming, Qin, Sui, Song, and finally the Jin.

The Yuan Dynasty was essentially a branch of the Mongol Empire, so discussing it is meaningless.

Strictly speaking, the Qing Dynasty was also established by invaders. Even if included, its ranking is very low because the Qing Dynasty was so backward that its vast territory was meaningless.

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 5 days ago

The four golden ages of Dutch football - which one is your favorite?

The Uncrowned King – this is the most fitting description for Dutch football.

I'm from Brazil, but my love for Dutch football is no less than that for my own country.

Before the 1970s, Dutch football was virtually unknown on the world stage. However, the four generations of superstars – Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, ​​and Robben – solidified the Netherlands as an undisputed traditional football powerhouse. They repeatedly reached the World Cup semi-finals and even the final, won the European Championship, and made numerous appearances in the semi-finals.

https://preview.redd.it/3xb3ph5qh09h1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=db11ba8d86ee0b7b1c06c9a632840036f7ad4a4a

https://preview.redd.it/jxhy22vrh09h1.png?width=947&format=png&auto=webp&s=122c78c2a101e06f0bdc77eca8717cb682660ae7

https://preview.redd.it/syhj9txuh09h1.png?width=995&format=png&auto=webp&s=82039134f842e3fd4ba0c4fd36c6ea55b33f33b7

https://preview.redd.it/yovfmgwwh09h1.png?width=950&format=png&auto=webp&s=2f04605ee774da57ead6e4d3383b3a2ea3011d69

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 13 days ago
▲ 577 r/haritalariseviyoruz+1 crossposts

Two superpowers in the 8th century AD: the Caliphate and Tang dynasty

In classical times, the great Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty never met.

But in the Middle Ages, the two greatest empires of the East and West clashed head-on.

Two empires exceeding 10 million square kilometers

These were the two most powerful empires of their time, representing the pinnacle of military, economic, cultural, and artistic achievement.

The Arabs conquered to the east, the Chinese conquered to the west.

The Caliph's greatest military achievement: conquered the Sasanian Persia

The Tang Dynasty's greatest military achievement: conquered the Eastern and Western Turkic Khaganates

There were approximately 9-10 military conflicts, the most famous being the Battle of Talas. The Turgesh, originally a vassal state of Chinese, rebelled during the war, leading to a Chinese defeat.

However, the Turgesh did not fare well either; they were subsequently retaliated against by the Chinese, and their state was destroyed.

(As it turned out, traitors rarely had a good ending. The Arabs also disliked these people who temporarily defected during the war. They even joined forces with the Chinese to attack them from both sides )

u/Ok_Mathematician4657 — 14 days ago
▲ 66 r/MapPorn

Ancient Civilizations - Which civilizations have completely disappeared? - Which civilizations still exist and are thriving?

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 14 days ago

The Mongol Empire - the most powerful nomadic empire in history

Foreword: Long before the Mongols, many powerful nomadic alliances/empires had emerged, such as the Scythians, Xiongnu, Huns, and the First Turkic Khaganate. However, they were often conquered or even expelled by more powerful settled civilizations.

The Romans ended the reign of the Sarmatians (dominant rulers of the Eastern European steppes), and the Chinese conquered/expelled the Xiongnu and the First Turkic Khaganate (both steppe empire that dominated the entire Mongolian steppe and Central Asia); but the Mongols completely surpassed these predecessors, achieving accomplishments that remain admirable to this day.

Achievement

1. The first empire in human history to expand its territory to over 20 million square kilometers.

Before the Mongol Empire, the Tang Chinese and the Caliphate Arab had expanded their territories to over 10 million square kilometers at their peak, but these were still much smaller than the Mongol Empire.

2.The first intercontinental land empire in human history to connect the entire Eurasian continent.

The entirety of East Asia, the Central Asian steppes, the Mesopotamian region of West Asia, the East European Plain, and Siberia is connected and covered.The Chinese opened the Silk Road 2,000 years ago, reaching as far as Rome**. Imagine, the Mongols conquered almost all of these regions.**

3.The first and only ethnic group in history to conquer Chinese dynasty and then establish its rule.

The Mongol conquest of China in the 13th century marked the first time this ancient civilization truly had been conquered (the entire country was ruled by a foreign people). The Manchus, another people who achieved conquest, were relatively fortunate; the Ming Dynasty died in a large-scale internal uprising in 1644, not from Manchu conquest. Before the Industrial Revolution, China was long one of the most powerful and wealthy regions in the world. The Xiongnu nomadic empires and the Turkic Khaganate were all defeated, conquered, and driven out by the Chinese. But the Mongols completely surpassed these nomadic predecessors.

In the 1st century AD, during the Battle of Altai, the Chinese completely defeated the Xiongnu, and some of their descendants evolved into the Huns. : r/HistoryMemes

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 15 days ago

Fellow Turkic people! No longer be slaves of the Chinese! - The Later Turkic Khaganate - A Tragic Song of the Medieval Turkic Steppe Khaganate - One of the Origins of the Turkic People's Westward Migration

https://preview.redd.it/uha97s9gn58h1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=958992017cfd958e441a2afb4399249da18f3470

https://preview.redd.it/8trp5g2in58h1.png?width=2340&format=png&auto=webp&s=44f8ca73c8a0a46897eb55317da1c26e26056a9b

Note:Most of the content is sourced from the Cambridge History of China, Harvard History of China, and Wikipedia, and then compiled by me.

Foreword: The Turks originated in Asia and reached their peak in the 6th century AD, occupying the entire Mongolian steppe and most of Central Asia.

called the First Turkic Khaganate

(Whether they are Anatolian Turks, Ottoman Turks, or Seljuk Turks, they all claim that their ancestors originated from the First Turkic Khaganate.)

Sui–Turkic war - Wikipedia

However, they suffered defeat in their invasion of Sui dynasty China, followed by internal strife and, instigated by the Chinese, ultimately split into the Eastern and Western Turkic Khaganates.

Tang campaign against the Eastern Turks - Wikipedia

Conquest of the Western Turks - Wikipedia

In the 7th century AD, the Tang dynasty China rose to power and conquered the two major Turkic Khaganates in 630 and 657 AD respectively, bringing their khans back to the Chinese capital and placing them under house arrest.

Thus ended the Turkic Khaganate.

However, it is clear that most of the conquered Turks were not treated well; even many noble Turkic men and women were even sold into slavery and prostitution by the Chinese.

This led to the rebellion and uprising of the Eastern Turks in 682 AD.

Historically known as the Second/Later Turkic Khaganate (682AD-742AD)

Turkic uprising declaration:

The Turkish people let their state... go to ruin..their sons worthy of becoming lords became slaves, and their daughters

worthy of becoming ladies became servants to the Chinese people. The Turkish lords abandoned their Turkish titles. Those

lords who were in China held the Chinese titles and obeyed the Chinese emperor and gave their service to him for fifty

years. For the benefit of the Chinese, they went on campaigns up to [the land ofj the Bukli qaghan in the east, where the su

rises, and as far as the Iron Gate in the West. For the benefit of the Chinese emperor they conquered countries

However, this uprising ultimately ended in failure.

In 742 AD, the Turkic rebellion was jointly suppressed and destroyed by the Chinese and Uyghurs, and a large number of rebellious Turks were massacred. The last Turkic Khan, White-browed Khan, was killed, and his head was sent to the Chinese capital to be displayed.

The Chinese used it to worship their ancestors, commemorating the Chinese general who had conquered turks 100 years earlier.

----- Thus, the Turkic Khaganates of the steppes came to a complete end—the First Turkic Khaganate became history.

However, the uprising of the Later Turkic Khaganate can be considered their final tragedy song.

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 17 days ago

Later/Second Turkic Khaganate - The final lament of the Steppe Turkic Khaganate

Foreword: The Turks originated in Asia and reached their peak in the 6th century AD, occupying the entire Mongolian steppe and most of Central Asia.

called the First Turkic Khaganate

(Whether they are Anatolian Turks, Ottoman Turks, or Seljuk Turks, they all claim that their ancestors originated from the First Turkic Khaganate.)

Sui–Turkic war - Wikipedia

However, they suffered defeat in their invasion of Sui dynasty China, followed by internal strife and, instigated by the Chinese, ultimately split into the Eastern and Western Turkic Khaganates.

Tang campaign against the Eastern Turks - Wikipedia

Conquest of the Western Turks - Wikipedia

In the 7th century AD, the Tang dynasty China rose to power and conquered the two major Turkic Khaganates in 630 and 657 AD respectively, bringing their khans back to the Chinese capital and placing them under house arrest.

Thus ended the Turkic Khaganate.

However, it is clear that most of the conquered Turks were not treated well; even many noble Turkic men and women were even sold into slavery and prostitution by the Chinese.

This led to the rebellion and uprising of the Eastern Turks in 682 AD.

Historically known as the Second/Later Turkic Khaganate (682AD-742AD)

Turkic uprising declaration:

The Turkish people let their state... go to ruin..their sons worthy of becoming lords became slaves, and their daughters

worthy of becoming ladies became servants to the Chinese people. The Turkish lords abandoned their Turkish titles. Those

lords who were in China held the Chinese titles and obeyed the Chinese emperor and gave their service to him for fifty

years. For the benefit of the Chinese, they went on campaigns up to [the land ofj the Bukli qaghan in the east, where the su

rises, and as far as the Iron Gate in the West. For the benefit of the Chinese emperor they conquered countries

However, this uprising ultimately ended in failure.

In 742 AD, the Turkic rebellion was jointly suppressed and destroyed by the Chinese and Uyghurs, and a large number of rebellious Turks were massacred. The last Turkic Khan, White-browed Khan, was killed, and his head was sent to the Chinese capital to be displayed.

The Chinese used it to worship their ancestors, commemorating the Chinese general who had conquered turks 100 years earlier.

----- Thus, the Turkic Khaganates of the steppes came to a complete end—the First Turkic Khaganate became history.

However, the uprising of the Later Turkic Khaganate can be considered their final tragedy song.

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 17 days ago

One thing is certain: many Chinese still harbor deep hatred towards the Manchus.

First, let me state that I am from south america but have a strong interest in Eastern history.
The Manchu rule was violently destroyed by the Chinese in the early 20th century.

https://preview.redd.it/p7yx1yi8i08h1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=590c0da59ccfa30ea32dbc977342af49156d686c

https://preview.redd.it/otlulb61i08h1.png?width=937&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9e528400d905fe2870f9bf2764dcc410aa3a4ce

During the mid-to-late Qing Dynasty, the Manchus were twice massacred and subjected to genocide by the Chinese, ultimately leading to their abandonment of rule. Many Manchus even changed their names to survive.

The Mongol Yuan Dynasty is, after all, a very long time ago.

But the Manchus are relatively recent, and based on my observations and research, a video game, *wuchang*, still reflects this point well.

https://preview.redd.it/eps88jdrh08h1.png?width=1149&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f3e3136e5a45bc18d0cec133ed92e4c0bfcaf5f

This game is a Chinese AAA title set in the late Ming Dynasty, but it ultimately failed, receiving a large number of negative reviews from Chinese players. Their reasoning was simple: why were there no Manchu bosses? We wanted to kill the Manchus. I consulted several Chinese friends, who said that before the game's release, many Chinese players had already left messages for the game developers expressing their desire to kill those low-ranking Manchus.

The Chinese are indeed a very vengeful people. The Manchus have already paid the price; their descendants were massacred and are now ruled by the Chinese.

However, there are still many Chinese who dislike them. Some Chinese nationalists even say, "Why didn't our ancestors wipe out all those inferior Tungusic animals by the end of the Qing Dynasty?"

Chinese and Mongolians share a common hatred for the Manchus.

So, after reading the Cambridge History of China, I came to this conclusion:

Never conquer China. Even if you succeed, the consequences will be devastating.

The Mongols suffered massacres at the hands of the Chinese after the Yuan Dynasty ended. They at least retained some land, but vast tracts remained under Chinese rule.

The Manchus? It was too tragic. Their descendants were massacred, forced to change their names, and almost all their land and 90% of the Manchu population were under Chinese rule.

Such conquest was meaningless.

Some Chinese propagandists like to claim that most Chinese people admire the Qing Dynasty and the Manchus. I can tell you with absolute certainty that's utter nonsense.

I've spoken with more than one Chinese player and online user, and many Chinese history enthusiasts don't acknowledge the Qing Dynasty at all, believing it was founded by Tungusic barbarians. That's why the game *Wuchang* receives so many negative reviews from Chinese players; they know the Qing was founded by invaders.

reddit.com
u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 18 days ago
▲ 27 r/VietNam

Is it true that Chinese in Vietnam committed numerous massacres and atrocities during the 20 years of Ming Dynasty rule?

I've recently been studying Eastern history, mainly Chinese history.

I got to the Ming Dynasty, I came across records describing Chinese troops repeatedly massacring Vietnamese people and committing numerous atrocities. Is this true?

During the Ming Dynasty’s annexation of Vietnam (1407–1428), known as the Fourth Chinese Domination, historians do not have a specific number of individual "massacres." Instead, the 20-year occupation was characterized by widespread systematic violence and an estimated 50% reduction in the Vietnamese population due to war, enslavement, and famine. 

Specific atrocities and brutalities during this period include:

  • Looting and Enslavement: Following the conquest of the Hồ Dynasty in 1407, Ming armies systematically looted the country. Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese civilians, particularly skilled artisans and scholars, were enslaved and forcibly deported to China to work on Ming imperial projects, including the Forbidden City. 
  • Destruction of Cultural Heritage: The Yongle Emperor ordered the burning of all non-Buddhist and Taoist Vietnamese books, documents, folklore, and children's literature. Local stelae were destroyed to erase Vietnamese history, culture, and national identity. 
  • Total War Casualties: Widespread famines and collateral devastation caused the population to plummet. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians died in major military engagements and counter-insurgency campaigns, culminating in the decisive Lam Sơn uprising.  Wikipedia +2

Records show that during the early Ming 's occupation of Vietnam, there were large-scale massacres of prisoners of war and looting. Many Vietnamese boys were castrated by the Chinese and sent to China to be trained as eunuchs.

The Vietnamese resistance was fierce; the Chinese beheaded those who resisted and piled their heads into a tower as a warning to the Vietnamese—this was the end for their resistance against the Ming .

Further atrocities included: the Chinese pulling out the intestines of Vietnamese people and tying them to trees, cutting open their stomachs, and bombarding them directly with cannons. Many Vietnamese were sold into slavery.

The Chinese policy is very simple and brutal: kill anyone who resists, kill anyone who disobeys China.

In addition to systematic massacres, there was also widespread cultural genocide, intended to erase national identity.

reddit.com
u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 18 days ago

The Ming Dynasty - the most brutal Chinese dynasty - a dynasty even the Mongols considered brutal.

Google answer

Yes. Both the Red Turban Army (the precursor movement to the Ming dynasty) and the Ming armies were responsible for large-scale massacres, mass executions, and brutal military campaigns in these regions during their rise and expansion. [123]

Yunnan
In 1381, the Ming dynasty launched a massive invasion to conquer the southwestern province of Yunnan, which was still held by Mongol and indigenous forces. After the capture of Dali, Ming generals like Lan Yu and Fu Youde slaughtered surrendering loyalist forces, castrated hundreds of prisoners, and instituted heavy militarized colonization that displaced many indigenous groups. [12]

Guizhou
During the initial Ming conquest in the 1380s and subsequent consolidation of the southwest, Ming armies systematically suppressed indigenous populations, particularly the Miao and Yao peoples. The establishment of卫所 (weisuo) military garrisons led to the displacement and extermination of local tribes who resisted Han Chinese military colonization. [1]

Mongolia
In their attempts to neutralize the Northern Yuan and prevent the Mongols from reclaiming China, Ming armies under generals like Xu Da and Mu Ying conducted devastating punitive expeditions deep into the Mongolian steppe. The most infamous of these was the 1410–1424 campaigns of the Yongle Emperor, which involved the sweeping destruction of Mongol encampments and immense loss of life. [12345]

Vietnam
During the Ming invasion and occupation of Vietnam (the Fourth Chinese domination, 1407–1427), Ming forces committed widespread atrocities. The Yongle Emperor ordered his armies to loot cultural artifacts, enslave the population, and execute Vietnamese elites. Widespread massacres of civilians and rebels were committed by Ming occupational forces until the Vietnamese resistance under Le Loi finally expelled them. [12]

Korea
While the Ming dynasty did not massacre Korean civilians, its predecessor—the anti-Mongol Red Turban Army—devastated Korea in the 1350s and 1360s. Fleeing the Yuan suppression, tens of thousands of Red Turbans invaded the Korean peninsula (Goryeo), burning cities, looting the royal capital of Kaesong, and indiscriminately slaughtering civilians and prisoners of war until the Goryeo military decimated the rebel forces in 1362. [1235]

The areas marked in red are the regions where massacres occurred.

The Ming Dynasty—the last truly Chinese dynasty—though its territorial conquests were far less extensive than those of the Han and Tang dynasties, interestingly, its brutality surpassed that of those two dynasties...
Even Mongolian herders once invented spells specifically to avoid its slaughter.

1359-1361AD: The Red Turban Army (a significant precursor to the Ming Dynasty) conquered the Korean Peninsula

not only driving out the local Mongol army but also massacring the local Koreans and the Korean royal family. Many Korean princesses were raped by Chinese soldiers. Some Koreans even recorded that "those Chinese were more brutal than the Mongols."

1369-1424 AD: After expelling the Mongols, the Chinese launched several large-scale invasions of the steppes

twice capturing the Mongol capital of Karakorum, carrying out massacres and burning the city. All Mongols taller than a cartwheel were slaughtered by the Chinese army, and many Mongol boys were castrated and sent back to the Chinese capital by the Ming Dynasty. In the 20th century, Russian archaeologists discovered a temple in what is now Mongolia containing incantations specifically invented by Mongol herders to avoid Ming Dynasty massacres. Even today, official Mongolian textbooks describe them as brutal, evil, and vicious.

1381-1382 AD: The Ming Dynasty conquered present-day Yunnan and Guizhou provinces.

Following the conquest, it carried out ethnic cleansing against the local indigenous peoples. Because many of these ethnic groups lived in the mountains, records indicate that Ming officials even encouraged ordinary Chinese to kill the indigenous people, offering their heads in exchange for money.

1406-1407 AD: The Ming Dynasty conquered Vietnam and ruled for 20 years.

According to numerous records, the Chinese army carried out several large-scale massacres in the region. During the short 20 years, there were as many as 31 large-scale uprisings by the Vietnamese. The Ming Dynasty not only carried out planned massacres, but also openly promoted a policy of cultural genocide.

15th-16th centuries: 3-4 large-scale ethnic cleansing campaigns against the Jurchen people. One of the reasons the founders of the Qing Dynasty launched these wars was because the Chinese had massacred our ancestors.

Textbooks in Vietnam, Korea, and Mongolia still contain criticisms of the Ming Dynasty Chinese, accusing them of extreme cruelty and evil, including numerous massacres and rapes. Yunnan, Guizhou, and Manchuria are now under Chinese rule, so these kinds of criticisms are unlikely to appear in textbooks.

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 18 days ago

A Chinese history enthusiast - Some viewpoints and facts observed after years of studying Chinese and browsing the Chinese internet.

Some of the viewpoints in this article are harsh, but they are all based on my genuine observations.

Please forgive me if I have offended you.

Furthermore, I'm posting this to correct some fallacies propagandists.

Previously, I saw someone in this forum claiming to be a Chinese history enthusiast saying that all Chinese acknowledge the Yuan and Qing dynasties, and that Chinese consider the greatest Chinese generals to be Turks and Koreans. This is definitely nonsense.

Based on my observation, Chinese hold Koreans and Turks in very low regard.

They believe the Turks were merely defeated, conquered, and expelled by the Chinese during the Sui and Tang dynasties. Many Turks surrendered and joined the Chinese army during the Tang dynasty, merely serving as their tools.

As for Koreans, the general Chinese perception is that they were Korean slaves who served as their vassal states for 2000 years.

The person who posted this message is very likely a Manchu.

1. Do the Chinese truly recognize the Yuan and Qing dynasties?

Simply put, for most of history, they did not. Even CCP textbooks from the 1950s and 60s openly stated that the Mongols and Manchus were invaders, and their dynasties were unworthy of being called China.

It wasn't until recent revisionist textbooks that they were acknowledged.

Although textbooks now acknowledge this, many Chinese history enthusiasts still disagree, claiming that the Manchus and Mongols were inferior barbarians. They argue that their dynasties were unqualified to represent China. Furthermore, some nationalists might say, "Let the Mongols and Manchus, two massacred and defeated peoples, be ruled by the Chinese until the end of the world!"

From what I've observed, those who acknowledge the Yuan and Qing dynasties are primarily descendants of Mongols and Manchus, and since they are currently Chinese citizens, they naturally defend these dynasties. However, most Chinese people do not acknowledge them. Many Chinese apps feature messages like "two beastly dynasties," claiming their descendants will be ruled by us until the end of the world—memes with clearly provocative intent.

Even these two dynasties that truly conquered China were not recognized, let alone some dynasties that occupied parts of the country, such as the Jurchen Jin dynasty.

During the Ming dynasty was generally one of non-recognition, considering it a dynasty established by inferior barbarians.

After establishing the Ming , its founding emperor, Zhu Yuanzhang, openly stated in letters to Japan, Korea, and Vietnam that the Mongols were inferior barbarians who had been driven out by the great Chinese, and that they should immediately pay tribute to the Ming dynasty.

Furthermore, during the early Ming dynasty's numerous invasions of the grasslands, they also had an open slogan: "Expel the barbarians!"

2.What is the general perception of Mongolians among Chinese?

Indeed, many Chinese believe that the people of Outer Mongolia (as the Chinese call it) are descendants of the Khalkha Mongol slave tribe. This is indeed not a rumor.

They believe the true Mongols are the Inner Mongolians whom they ruled now.

Therefore, you often see people saying, "The true descendants of that animal Genghis Khan were all ruled by China; what are the descendants of those slaves proud of?"

3.Many Chinese history enthusiasts describe the peak of the Mongol Empire simply as a matter of good luck.

If Genghis Khan had encountered the peak of the Han and Tang dynasties, what would have been the difference between the fate of the Mongol Empire and that of the Turks and Xiongnu?

Yes, in the eyes of many Chinese history enthusiasts, Genghis Khan was very lucky. If he had been born in the Tang or Han dynasties at their peak, his fate would have been no different from that of the Turkic Khan and Xiongnu Khan: captured alive or forced to flee.

The Xiongnu surrendered in war; some lived among the Chinese and became Chinese themselves. Others were subjected to genocide by the Chinese and forced to flee west.

The Turks? At their peak, they were defeated by the Sui Dynasty, then fragmented. The Khans of the Eastern and Western Turkic Khaganates were captured alive by Li Jing and Su Dingfang like dogs, and the Khaganate was completely destroyed. The head of the Later Turkic Khan was displayed in the Chinese capital.

The Mongols were lucky to encounter a Chinese dynasty that had already been fragmented for 200-300 years. But even conquering the weakest Song Dynasty would have taken them nearly half a century.

In this light, their luck was not bad either.

But luck must eventually be repaid. Now, whether it's the Mongols or the Manchus, they are merely peoples ruled by us.

4.The Mongols' millennia-long history saw only one peak, while numerous Chinese dynasties are recognized as world-class empires. Even now, many Mongols are simply a people ruled by us.

Chinese history enthusiasts might say, "The Mongols? This tribe didn't first appear until the medieval period of the Tang-Song dynasties."

Meanwhile, the Qin, Han, Tang, Ming, and even the weakest Song dynasty of the Chinese were all recognized as world-class empires. The Song dynasty even managed to resist the Mongol Empire's invasions for 50 years at its peak.

The Mongols' peak seemed extremely glorious, but it was too short-lived. Even now, many Mongols are still ruled by Russians and Chinese.

5.Nomadic peoples preferred barren, desolate grasslands precisely because they were weak.

The strong occupy fertile, habitable lands. Why did the ancestors of nomadic peoples prefer barren, desolate grasslands? Ultimately, it was because they were weak.

Boasting about military strength? So militarily powerful that they preferred living on the impoverished, harsh grasslands? It took them nearly half a century to conquer the Southern Song Dynasty?

Dude, the Song Dynasty's military strength couldn't even rank in the top five among Chinese dynasties, yet you had to spend almost half a century, and even lose your Khan.

(Original Chinese words)

Humans all crave comfortable land.

In fact, throughout thousands of years, nomadic peoples have only achieved true glory once: the Mongols at their peak. The Manchus were not nomadic; they also benefited from the Ming Dynasty's demise due to internal strife, and the Manchus conquered merely a crumbling empire.

Most of the above viewpoints are what I have seen and compiled. Although they are very aggressive,

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 18 days ago

Is it due to geographical location? Why has the Korean Peninsula historically been a vassal state of other countries for so long?

https://preview.redd.it/8okjhcnkgs7h1.png?width=1141&format=png&auto=webp&s=64e36912e4ee2ef8c210e310f369d43a11895d66

Is it due to geographical location? Historically, Korea has often been a vassal state of powerful neighboring countries.

This submission meant that the ascension of its king, or even its prince, required recognition from another powerful state; otherwise, it was considered illegal.

Annual tribute was required, and even if not directly ruled, the king nominally acknowledged himself as a subordinate of the emperor (usually a Chinese dynasty).

I recently discovered this interesting point while researching Eastern history.

From the Han to the SimaJin dynasties, the Chinese directly ruled northern Korea for approximately 400 years.

During the Sui dynasty, Korea achieved complete independence and repelled several Chinese invasions.

During the Tang dynasty, the Chinese destroyed two of the three kingdoms of Korea. Although Silla eventually expelled the Chinese army, it remained subservient to China in the 8th century, acknowledging itself as a vassal state and maintaining annual tribute, even sending its crown prince to the Chinese capital.

During the Song dynasty, parts of northern were controlled by the Jurchens, and Goryeo was highly subservient to the Jurchen Jin dynasty.

During the Mongol Empire, Korea became a semi-colony, with at least half of its territory directly conquered.

During the Ming dynasty, Korea was subservient to China; in the Imjin War, China aided Korea in the name of its suzerain state.

During the Qing dynasty under Manchu rule, Korea was highly subservient to the Qing dynasty.

From the late 19th century to World War II, it became a Japanese colony.

It is now considered an independent country, but it is still greatly influenced by the United States in terms of economy and military.

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 19 days ago
▲ 165 r/ChineseHistory+1 crossposts

Tang dynasty peak-State destroyer

Even if you've never studied Eastern/Chinese history, you've likely heard of dynasties like the Han, Tang, and Ming.

The Tang Dynasty(618-907AD)—the pinnacle of medieval chinese civilization—was extremely prosperous and powerful in military, culture, art, and economy.

If the Han Dynasty represents the pinnacle of classical Chinese civilization, then the Tang undoubtedly represents the Middle Ages, with the Song and Ming Dynasties falling significantly short in comparison.

According to historical records, the Chinese at that time destroyed a total of 16 intact foreign states; if you include some small Central Asian states, the number could reach over 30.

Moreover, those guys usually like to capture Khans or Kings alive, bring them back to the Chinese capital for demonstrations and house arrest.

By the way, if you enjoy playing video games, the Tang is also the setting for Blood Message.

This is also my favorite Chinese dynasty after studying Chinese history.

It can be considered a nation-destroyer in the 7th and 8th centuries AD.

In 630 AD, destroyed the Eastern Turkic Khaganate and captured its Khan.

(Its territory mainly consists of the present-day Mongolian steppe.)

In 635 AD, destroyed the Tuyuhun Kingdom, and its king committed suicide.

(Its territory mainly comprises present-day Qinghai Province of China.)

In 646 AD, destroyed the Xueyantuo Khaganate, and its Khan surrendered.

(Its territory mainly consists of the present-day Mongolian steppe.)

In 657 AD, destroyed the Western Turkic Khaganate and captured its Khan.

(Its territory mainly includes what is now Central Asia.)

In 660 AD, destroyed the Baekje Kingdom and captured its king.

(Its territory mainly includes what is now southern Korea.)

In 668 AD, destroyed the Goguryeo Kingdom and captured its king.

(Its territory mainly includes most of present-day Manchuria and the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.)

In 744 AD, destroyed the Turgesh Khaganate, which had temporarily betrayed him in the Battle of Talas; the Khan's whereabouts became unknown.

(Its territory mainly includes present-day Central Asia.)

In 745 AD, allied with the Uyghurs to suppress the rebellious Later Turkic Khaganate and killed its Khan.

(Its territory mainly includes what is now Mongolia.)

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 19 days ago

Medieval Chinese-Turkic Wars

Foreword: Many western history enthusiasts often hear that the Chinese defeated and expelled the Xiongnu during the Roman Empire, and that some of their descendants evolved into the Hun (this is, of course, controversial).

However, the Chinese conquered the Turks during the Middle Ages is actually one of the more definitive reasons for the migration of their descendants.

Having thoroughly studied the cambridge history of China (and recently planning to purchase the Harvard History of China), I'd like to share this fascinating history of the Middle Ages with you.

When you think of Turk, who is the first that comes to mind?

Ottoman Turks?

Seljuk Turks? Or Khazar Turks?

However, these are not the origins of the Turks, who, as is well known, originated in Asia. According to records, all three were descendants of the Western Turks.

The first clear written record of them appears in 542 AD, recorded by the Chinese of that time.

**Origin:**According to records, from around 450 to 550 AD, the Turks were ruled by the Rouran, another powerful nomadic people at the time.

The Rouran called the Turks "forging slaves," meaning the Turks were a slave tribe specifically responsible for forging weapons and armor for the Rouran.

**Rise:**From 552 to 555 AD, the Turks revolted, destroyed the Rouran, and killed their last Khan. They then established the Turkic Khaganate(Göktürk Khaganate)

Peak: The Turkic Khaganate reached its peak between 553 and 572 AD. Its sphere of influence encompassed present-day Mongolia, Xinjiang of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and southern Siberia of Russia.

Its area was approximately 6-7.5 million square kilometers.

Split: Sui–Turkic war - Wikipedia

In 581 AD, Yang Jian established the Sui Dynasty. In the same year, the Turks demanded that the Chinese submit and pay tribute, but the Chinese refused.

In 582 AD, the Turks launched a full-scale invasion of the Sui Dynasty, amassing approximately 300,000-350,000 cavalrymen who invaded China from four directions.

In 583 AD, the Chinese launched a counterattack, with approximately 200,000 troops actively invading Turkic territory from eight directions. The counterattack was successful, repeatedly defeating the Turkic army, and the Turks faced severe problems of food shortages and plague, leading to serious internal strife.

In the same year, knowing of the Turkic's internal problems, the Chinese sent diplomats to sow discord among the Turks, ultimately leading to the split of the Turkic Khaganate into the Eastern Turkic Khaganate and the Western Turkic Khaganate.

Among them, the Eastern Turkic Khaganate, under pressure, submitted to China and maintained a stable tribute payment.

_________________________________________________________________

However, the Sui was a short-lived Chinese dynasty, lasting only a little over 30 years. Its destruction was attributed to the extreme policies of its second emperor.

The Tang dynasty emerged (and is still widely considered by most historians to be one of the greatest Chinese dynasties, along with the Han dynasty).

Fall: As mentioned earlier, the Turkic Khaganate split into two khanates. The Eastern Turkic Khaganate's main territory and sphere of influence encompassed the present-day Mongolian steppe, while the Western Turkic Khaganate primarily controlled Central Asia.

The Tang Dynasty (618-907 AD), after experiencing civil war, still faced many internal problems in its early years. Consequently, the Eastern Turks, who had previously submitted to China, repeatedly invaded and plundered the Chinese borders, posing a threat to China.

However, the establishment of the Tang was in a sense, a misfortune for the Turks. The Tang was far more powerful than the Sui .

Tang Dynasty conquers Eastern Turks:(629-630 AD)

Tang campaign against the Eastern Turks - Wikipedia

Driven by the need to maintain trade along the Silk Road and to counter threats from the steppes, the Chinese initiated an invasion. In 629 AD, Chinese general Li Jing led an army to invade the Eastern Turkic Khaganate. In 630 AD, in the Yinshan Mountains of present-day Inner Mongolia, Li Jing led 3,000 Chinese cavalry in a night raid on the Khaganate's camp. In March of the same year, the Eastern Turkic Khan was captured by the Chinese army and taken to the Chinese capital under house arrest. The Eastern Turkic Khaganate thus came to an end.

Tang Dynasty conquers Western Turks:(655-657AD)

Conquest of the Western Turks - Wikipedia

The Eastern Turkic Khaganate was conquered by the Chinese. However, the Turks still possessed the Western Turkic Khaganate, which remained influential in Central Asia and posed a continued threat to the Chinese. Furthermore, the Central Asian region under its control had a greater impact on the Silk Road. Therefore, the Chinese once again chose to launch a war of conquest.

In 657 AD, Chinese general Su Dingfang led an army to invade Central Asia.

In what is now northern Xinjiang, he achieved a decisive victory against overwhelming odds, defeating 100,000 Turk cavalry and pursuing them as far as present-day Uzbekistan. The Western Turkic Khan was captured and taken to the Chinese capital, where he was placed under house arrest.

With this, the entire Turkic Khaganate collapsed, and its territory was largely annexed by the Chinese.

Historical records indicate that some Western Turks, unwilling to accept Chinese rule, migrated westward. Among their descendants were the Seljuks and Osman I**. A domino effect of history.**

Interlude: The Eastern Turkic Khaganate's rebellion was suppressed by a joint force of the Tang Chinese and the Uyghurs.

In 682 AD, the Eastern Turks, who had been ruled by the Chinese for half a century, revolted. Their slogan was: "No more slaves to the Chinese! Those hateful, evil Chinese! Our Khan can only use the name of a Chinese beggar! Our noble daughters are sold as prostitutes by the Chinese! Fellow Turks, rise up for freedom!"

But this period of prosperity was short-lived. In 745 AD, the last Khan of the First Turkic Khaganate, White Eyebrows, was beheaded. His head was sent to the Chinese capital and displayed as a war trophy on the city walls.

Thus, the First Turkic Khaganate truly came to an end.

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 21 days ago

The Mongol Empire - From Heaven to Hell

The Mongol Empire - From Heaven to Hell

Currently, most of Mongolia territory and Mongols are ruled by Russians and Chinese. Their peak is undeniable, but after that peak came a massive decline...

The fate of the Mongols after the end of their rule in various regions

Yuan Dynasty (China area )

After rule was destroyed, saw large number of Mongols in China were massacred in retaliation. Approximately 60-70% of the Mongols were killed, with a small number escaping back to the grasslands. Some surrendered and joined the Chinese army. In the early Ming Dynasty, the Chinese army invaded the grasslands multiple times, twice capturing and burning Karakorum (the site chosen by Genghis Khan as the capital of the Mongol Empire). Many Mongol herders on the grasslands were massacred by the Chinese, and young boys were captured, castrated, and sent to the Chinese capital to be raised as eunuchs.

Ilkhanate (Persian West Asia area)

After rule was destroyed, almost all the nobles were massacred by the Persians. Large numbers of Mongols were assimilated by the Persians, Turks, and Arabs, losing their ethnic identity. They converted to Islam and forgot their original faith.

Golden Horde/Kipchak Khanate (Central Asia, part of Russia area)

After rule was destroyed, saw the massacre of many Mongol nobles and the enslavement of countless Mongols. They also lost their national identity.

Chagatai Khanate (in the heart of Central Asia)

After rule was destroyed saw a large number of Mongol nobles massacred and expelled, becoming highly Turkicized and Islamized, losing their identity.

u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 21 days ago
▲ 519 r/geography

Is it due to geographical location? Why for 2000years, did no Chinese dynasty, which was the dominant power in the region for most of that time, show any interest in invading and conquering Japan?

https://preview.redd.it/51d7pvw1187h1.png?width=570&format=png&auto=webp&s=664502b9ef670b6492e62f986a53e1c5f76a1206

For the past year or so, I've primarily been studying Asian, especially Chinese history, and I've noticed a very interesting phenomenon. Even excluding the two dynasties established through conquest (the Mongol Yuan and the Manchu Qing), Chinese dynasties were the absolute dominant forces in the region for a long period, undoubtedly possessing the strongest military power and cultural influence. Yet, it seems that for the past 2000 years, no Chinese dynasty has ever shown any interest in invading Japan.

Why is this?The idea that Chinese people don't like expansion is, without a doubt propaganda.

The Qin, Han, and Tang dynasties, including the last dynasty ruled by the Chinese themselves Ming, all engaged in conquest and expansion. Especially during the Han and Tang dynasties, their territorial expansion was substantial.

Vietnam under Chinese rule - Wikipedia

Chinese rule over Vietnam lasted 1000 years.

Four Commanderies of Han - Wikipedia

Chinese rule over northern Korea lasted 400 years.

Regions bordering China, such as Vietnam and Korea, were also conquered and ruled by China in history.

Here's a rough list of these Chinese dynasties (focusing on unification/major dynasties, excluding periods of division).

  1. Qin Dynasty (The first dynasty to unify Chinese civilization, short-lived but briefly expanding to Mongolia and present-day southern China)
  2. Han Dynasty (A period of large-scale expansion, extending Chinese territory From 2 million to 6.3 million square kilometers, establishing the Silk Road, and defeating and expelling the Xiongnu)
  3. Jin Dynasty (Ended the Three Kingdoms period but subsequently became embroiled in internal strife, leading to 300 years of division in China)
  4. Sui Dynasty (Ended a period of division, briefly unifying China for 40 years, defeating and splitting the Turkic Khaganate)
  5. Tang Dynasty (The second golden age after the Han Dynasty, a peak period of large-scale expansion, conquering the Eastern and Western Turkic Khaganates, at one point expanding its territory to 12 million square kilometers)
  6. Song Dynasty (At its peak, it only ruled about 75% of China, its culture and economy were extremely prosperous, it resisted the Mongol invasion for half a century, and ultimately perished)
  7. Yuan Dynasty (The first dynasty to be ruled all country by a foreign ethnic group) The Mongol Empire (a branch of the Chinese company) attempted to invade Japan but ultimately abandoned the invasion due to the sea and typhoons.
  8. The Ming Dynasty (a dynasty that destroyed Mongol rule, initially invading the Mongolian steppe multiple times, conquering Vietnam for 20 years, and conquering present-day Yunnan and Guizhou provinces and Manchuria in China).
  9. The Qing Dynasty (the second foreign dynasty to rule all of China, established by the Manchus, after the Meiji Restoration lost war with japan).

For much of the time before the Industrial Revolution, Chinese dynasties were often regarded as world-class empires, yet it seems none of them were interested in invading Japan. The Yuan Dynasty, being the Mongol Empire, cannot be strictly considered a Chinese dynasty.

Battle of Baekgang - Wikipedia

Imjin War - Wikipedia

It is worth noting that during the Tang and Ming dynasties, the Chinese had already fought against the Japanese army. During the Tang Dynasty, the Chinese easily defeated the Japanese navy, which was several times their size. The Ming Dynasty also reversed the situation in the Imjin War. Initially, the Japanese almost conquered Korea, and a large amount of Korean territory fell, but after the arrival of the Ming army, they quickly helped Korea recover many cities.

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u/Wise-Pineapple-4190 — 22 days ago