u/grl_so_in_delululand

I know this is old news by now, but how do we feel about Olivia's partnership with Lâncome? To me, it seems disingenuous & hypocritical for someone who wrote a song like "pretty isn't pretty" to turn around & promote the very thing her art was critiquing. Like, is her label making her do it or something?? Because I can't imagine she desperately needs the money or anything. It's just not a good look imo, it shows that she's willing to abandon her supposed values the second it becomes profitable for her. Am I being overly critical? What do y'all think?

Edit: Since some people seem to be missing the point of what I was saying, I'll attempt to clarify. I don't mean wearing makeup itself is "bad" or hypocritical or anti-feminist or anything like that. The problem is, where does this feeling of "never feeling pretty enough" that she talks about in the song come from? It doesn't just "come from within." It comes from the messages & images we internalize from our external environment-- namely beauty standards & capitalism always trying to sell us something, and needing to make us feel insecure in order to get us to buy more shit. So partnering with a makeup brand to promote this is being not only complicit in this system, but actively participating in & benefitting from it. If you thought "pretty isn't pretty" was just about an entirely internal struggle with self-esteem/body image, and not a critique of a systemic issue that extends far beyond the individual, then imho you missed at least half the point of the song...

Hey y'all, I'm trying to find a good lip stain for everyday wear, because I low-key hate the sensation of product on my lips & feel like a stain would be much more comfortable for me. I tried this one from NYX a few months ago & loved the formula, but the color wasn't right for me, so I returned it & would like to try a different one this time. The shade name was Hydra Honey, and the thing is, I actually loved the color of it while wet, but the stain it left behind (after blotting it off) turned into a bright pink somehow, which is definitely not my color-- I'm more of a nude-pink/brownish-pink lippie girlie myself.

Since I'm planning on wearing this product blotted/as a stain, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a shade that, when blotted, looks like Hydra Honey looks when wet? (I hope that's clear... It's kinda hard to word this question in a non-confusing way... )

From reviews & swatches I've seen online, it looks like Mocha Me Wet and Espresso Soak might be the closest to what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure... Please let me know if you have an answer to this! Swatches would be helpful as well, if you own any of these shades. Thanks in advance!

Hey y'all, I'm trying to find a good lip stain for everyday wear, because I low-key hate the sensation of product on my lips & feel like a stain would be much more comfortable for me. I tried this one from NYX a few months ago & loved the formula, but the color wasn't right for me, so I returned it & would like to try a different one this time. The shade name was Hydra Honey, and the thing is, I actually loved the color of it while wet, but the stain it left behind (after blotting it off) turned into a bright pink somehow, which is definitely not my color-- I'm more of a nude-pink/brownish-pink lippie girlie myself.

Since I'm planning on wearing this product blotted/as a stain, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a shade that, when blotted, looks like Hydra Honey looks when wet? (I hope that's clear... It's kinda hard to word this question in a non-confusing way... )

From reviews & swatches I've seen online, it looks like Mocha Me Wet and Espresso Soak might be the closest to what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure... Please let me know if you have an answer to this! Swatches would be helpful as well, if you own any of these shades. Thanks in advance!

Hey y'all, I'm trying to decide which shade of the NYX lip IV gloss/stains would work best for me. I would love to see swatches of the shades Hydra Honey, Mocha Me Wet, Espresso Soak, and Splash n Spice. I will most likely be wearing it as a stain, so swatches of them as stains (or both the gloss and the stain) would be most helpful.

I tend to like nude lip colors, ranging from muted pink to light brown, and I have a light skin tone (though I tan easily) with a neutral-warm undertone. For reference, some of my favorite lip colors in the past have been:

• NYX Butter Gloss in shade Praline
• NYX Lip Lingerie XXL Smooth Matte Liquid Lipstick in shade Turn On
• Elf glow reviver lip oil in Honey Talks
• Elf O Face Satin Lipstick in shade Drive
• Elf glossy lip stain in shade Cinnamon Dreams
• Pixi Tinted Lip Balm in shade Nectar
• Elf Cream Glide Lip Liner in Baddest Beige

So I'm looking for the shade in this lip stain that is the closest approximation possible to things in this color family (when worn as a stain).

Thanks in advance!

I feel like there's a lot of stigma both online & irl towards those who struggle with shopping addiction/makeup hoarding/overconsumption/etc. It's seen as a character flaw, a moral weakness even. It's never seen as something that could be "that deep" -- just greed, gluttony, vanity, and hedonistic consumer culture.

But what if it is "that deep" for some of us? I would argue most of us, even. I believe it is. For some, it might be the core human desire for a sense of belonging. Beauty companies are constantly capitalizing off of this by promising through their adverts that this new product will make you feel loved, desired, cool, popular, etc. For others, it might be insecurities about our physical appearance, maybe even body dysmorphia. Again, beauty companies capitalize off this as well, selling us products to "fix" is supposedly "wrong" with ourselves (including things that we didn't even know needed "fixing" before they planted the idea in our heads!).

For others, it could even be rooted in childhood trauma. Many of us might've grown up with a scarcity mindset due to poverty, physical or emotional neglect, social ostricization, eating disorders, and other forms of trauma.

I know that I personally experienced at least two of those -- emotional neglect & eating disorders -- which critically shaped my relationship to money & material goods. I grew up feeling like emotional resources were scarce, and I learned to cope through restricting my food intake (a.k.a. developing an eating disorder). The toll that the starvation took on my body was not purely physical-- it was psychological as well. Though self-inflicted, the food scarcity I was subjected to led me to view other material resources as scarce as well. Subconsciously, I constantly felt like things were going to "run out" & I must prepare for the next "famine." This was a direct symbolic representation of how things felt in my emotional life, too. Growing up in a dysfunctional family with a narcissistic mother, who oscillated between emotional abuse & love-bombing me with flattery & gifts, I learned to associate "stuff" (clothes, makeup, jewelry, etc) with her "good" phases, which felt scarce, before her "bad" phases would cycle back again. And so I carried this with me into early adulthood & learned to cope/self-soothe by spending money buying stuff (like makeup) that I didn't need, almost as though it made me feel close with my mom again & reminded me of the times she made me feel "loved."

This was a really heartbreaking realization for me, though it also made me feel a sense of relief. For years, I'd been beating myself up over my overconsumption problem, feeling like it made me a "bad" or immoral person, and that I just lacked "discipline" for not being able to stop. This shame spiral certainly wasn't helpful, and it also was somewhat unfounded. My problem didn't come from greed or gluttony or a lack of morals at all. It had nothing to do with my character. I wasn't a bad person for it. This problem was actually deeply embedded in my psyche as a response to trauma. It completely made sense. I felt so much compassion for myself upon recognizing this, and realized that breaking this cycle wasn't simply a matter of sheer "willpower"; it had to be incorporated into my trauma healing & eating disorder recovery.

Anyways, I hope this lands with the right audience. In other words, I am a bit nervous about being this vulnerable & hope it is received with respect & understanding, and I also hope that it reaches those who need to hear it & helps others in the process. Because I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I'd love to hear your stories if anyone else relates to this. ❤️‍🩹

From my understanding, the majority opinion is that being late is extremely rude, annoying, inconveniencing, entitled, disrespectful of others' time, etc, and most people strongly dislike it when other people are late. But I honestly don't mind it. Within reason, of course. Showing up an hour late is obviously just obnoxious. But running 5-10 minutes late? Yeah, I don't care. In fact, whenever I'm meeting a friend somewhere & they hit me with a "hey sorry, I'm running a few minutes late" text right before our agreed-upon time, I not only don't feel particularly annoyed, I often feel somewhat glad. First of all, if I'm running late too, then I feel a sense of relief because now there's a good chance we'll be arriving at the same time, or I'll even arrive before them, and I won't feel guilty about having made them wait for me. On the other hand, if I'm not running late & I'm just on time/early, then I just see it as 5-10 extra minutes of quiet time just to myself, and I don't mind that at all, in fact I find it kinda nice.

Obviously this depends on context & setting, but I'm mostly referring to just having a casual meet-up/hang-out with a friend. This doesn't necessarily apply to more serious or formal situations, like professional settings, etc.

On the other hand, I do find it rather annoying/rude when people show up earlier than you made plans for. When meeting up at a 3rd location (e.g. restaurant, coffee shop, park, etc), it's not so bad, but when they show up to your house early?! Yeah, I'm probably still gonna be half-naked getting ready or something. Don't expect me to answer the door like that! Just show up on time. If you're more than 2-3 minutes early, just drive around the block or wait in your car or something. But I'd much prefer someone who's 5-10 minutes late over someone who's 5-10 minutes early in this case.

I guess maybe part of this comes from the fact that I'd much rather wait on others than be waited on by others. If I'm the one who's a few minutes late -- or even if I'm right on time & they just happened to show up early -- then I feel super guilty having made them wait around for me. But if I'm the one doing the waiting, I'm like "oh good, I don't have to feel guilty, I get to just relax." I know it's probably an unpopular opinion, but am I alone in this...?

Remember that one post where someone was like "Phoebe's 3rd album is coming out in late 2026, I can't share the details, but I've got connections & you probably won't believe me anyways, but it's true" -- I can't find it now, but do y'all remember that?? And everyone in the comments was low-key making fun of them like "oh yeah sure, source: trust me bro" & they were like "I said I knew you wouldn't believe me, but just wait & see..." WELL IT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE!!! 😭😭 Maybe it was just a coincidence, maybe they were bullshitting at the time & just turned out to be a lucky guesser, but damn, that's kinda crazy.

Edit: It might've been this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/phoebebridgers/s/usuDjUTokR

Though idk, I could've sworn it said 2026. Maybe I was misremembering. If someone knows what I'm talking about & has found the post, please lmk!!

Either way, I'm pretty sure it was posted before she started doing the pop-up shows, so their prediction couldn't've been based on that...

Regardless, I'm just glad we're getting new music!! I honestly thought Phoebe had practically "retired" (as a solo artist at least) & that we wouldn't be getting any more music from her.

Hey y'all, first time posting, so I hope this is allowed. (I don't think I saw anything against it in the rules.)

So I'd consider myself a former/recovering makeup addict. To make the long story short, I had been caught in a cycle of impulse-buying & overbuying makeup for a while, then tried really hard to stop & was unable to. Not just makeup, but clothes, skincare & hair products as well. Ironically, I eventually ended up breaking the cycle when I wasn't really trying to due to a prolonged period of illness (like over a year). I simply felt too crappy to do my hair/makeup most of the time, & was barely able to leave the house much anyways, so I just kinda stopped. I also stopped overbuying clothes during this time due to weight fluctuations resulting from my health issues that led me to only buy essentials, since I wasn't sure if my clothing size was going to stay the same or change again anyways. I then realized how little I actually needed all that excessive stuff in the first place!

Now that I'm on the mend & possibly going to be getting a job soon & start participating more in everyday life, I'm not sure what to do with/about my makeup collection. It's been just sitting there, mostly untouched, for the past several months now. The thing is, now that I've realized how little I actually need, I don't wanna have so much extra stuff anymore. But I don't really know what to do with it-- how much to keep, how much to throw/give away, whether to start with the declutter or hold off for now, etc. I see several options, each with it's own pros/cons.

On the one hand, I've seen some de-influencers (such as Kelly Gooch) actually recommend to hold off on decluttering, at least initially. The logic behind this is that it can make you feel like you have permission to rebuy everything you just got rid of, reigniting the cycle all over again. Instead, just re-organizing & maybe setting some products aside to reevaluate later whether to keep or throw them away. The obvious "con" here is that it means holding onto more clutter for longer.

On the other hand, maybe I should just start with the declutter. I want to limit my collection to just a handful of items I can store in something no larger than a small makeup bag. I really want to build my "signature" collection/style made up of only my "holy grail" products (and by "build," I really mean "narrow down from what I already have"), including maybe 1 foundation or skin tint, 1 concealer, 1 mascara, up to 2 cheek products (1 blush, 1 bronzer), up to 3 eyeliners (1 brown pencil, 1 black pencil, 1 black liquid), up to 3 lip products (like 1 lipstick, 1 lip gloss, and 1 lip stain), and an undecided number of eyeshadows/palettes. The reason why I say an "undecided" number of eyeshadows/palettes is because I have SO MANY eyeshadow palettes (& several singles too) that I would not even know where to BEGIN with decluttering them. And tbh, eyeshadow is my favorite part of doing makeup-- it's the part where I feel like I get to be the most creative & colorful with my makeup. So I might wanna keep too many lol.

I guess that would be one downside of starting with a declutter. Another would be the fact that I wouldn't know what to do with all the products I'm getting rid of. If something's not used up or expired, I feel bad about throwing it in the trash. It seems so wasteful to me, both financially & environmentally -- I guess that's a good incentive to not buy so much in the first place next time. I hypothetically could give some away, but honestly there's only one woman in my life right now who wears makeup on a regular basis, and it's my mom, and we're not the same shade in most things-- plus she has even more of a makeup addiction than I do!!! I don't wanna be an enabler lol! Plus, I know that whatever I give her would probably just sit in the bottom of a drawer somewhere under heaps of other products until it expires anyway.

A third option that I am genuinely considering is simply getting rid of all my makeup & deciding not to wear makeup anymore. I guess during this period of illness/recovery, I've gotten pretty used to seeing my bare face all the time, and realized how much time & effort & energy doing makeup takes anyway. And how much money is saved by not buying any! Plus, wearing makeup sets a higher bar for my appearance which makes it so that both I & others seem to think my bare face looks "wrong" without it (which is obviously not great for my self-image). Like at my last job, I wore makeup almost every day, and when I didn't, I was guaranteed to hear "are you sick?" or "you look tired" at least once during my shift -- but I probably would've never heard that if I hadn't been wearing makeup almost every day in the first place. Of course, the downside to this is that I do enjoy wearing makeup sometimes, I find it to be a fun creative outlet (when it doesn't feel like an obligation), and so this would be taking that option away.

Obviously, I'm the only one who can answer these things for myself. But what do you guys think? Do you have any suggestions/advice for me? What would you recommend? Thanks.

Hey y'all, first time posting, so I hope this is allowed. (I don't think I saw anything against it in the rules.)

So I'd consider myself a former/recovering makeup addict. To make the long story short, I had been caught in a cycle of impulse-buying & overbuying makeup for a while, then tried really hard to stop & was unable to. Not just makeup, but clothes, skincare & hair products as well. Ironically, I eventually ended up breaking the cycle when I wasn't really trying to due to a prolonged period of illness (like over a year). I simply felt too crappy to do my hair/makeup most of the time, & was barely able to leave the house much anyways, so I just kinda stopped. I also stopped overbuying clothes during this time due to weight fluctuations resulting from my health issues that led me to only buy essentials, since I wasn't sure if my clothing size was going to stay the same or change again anyways. I then realized how little I actually needed all that excessive stuff in the first place!

Now that I'm on the mend & possibly going to be getting a job soon & start participating more in everyday life, I'm not sure what to do with/about my makeup collection. It's been just sitting there, mostly untouched, for the past several months now. The thing is, now that I've realized how little I actually need, I don't wanna have so much extra stuff anymore. But I don't really know what to do with it-- how much to keep, how much to throw/give away, whether to start with the declutter or hold off for now, etc. I see several options, each with it's own pros/cons.

On the one hand, I've seen some de-influencers (such as Kelly Gooch) actually recommend to hold off on decluttering, at least initially. The logic behind this is that it can make you feel like you have permission to rebuy everything you just got rid of, reigniting the cycle all over again. Instead, just re-organizing & maybe setting some products aside to reevaluate later whether to keep or throw them away. The obvious "con" here is that it means holding onto more clutter for longer.

On the other hand, maybe I should just start with the declutter. I want to limit my collection to just a handful of items I can store in something no larger than a small makeup bag. I really want to build my "signature" collection/style made up of only my "holy grail" products (and by "build," I really mean "narrow down from what I already have"), including maybe >!1 foundation or skin tint, 1 concealer, 1 mascara, up to 2 cheek products (1 blush, 1 bronzer), up to 3 eyeliners (1 brown pencil, 1 black pencil, 1 black liquid), up to 3 lip products (like 1 lipstick, 1 lip gloss, and 1 lip stain), and an undecided number of eyeshadows/palettes. !<The reason why I say an "undecided" number of eyeshadows/palettes is because I have SO MANY eyeshadow palettes (& several singles too) that I would not even know where to BEGIN with decluttering them. And tbh, eyeshadow is my favorite part of doing makeup-- it's the part where I feel like I get to be the most creative & colorful with my makeup. So I might wanna keep too many lol.

I guess that would be one downside of starting with a declutter. Another would be the fact that I wouldn't know what to do with all the products I'm getting rid of. If something's not used up or expired, I feel bad about throwing it in the trash. It seems so wasteful to me, both financially & environmentally -- I guess that's a good incentive to not buy so much in the first place next time. I hypothetically could give some away, but honestly there's only one woman in my life right now who wears makeup on a regular basis, and it's my mom, and we're not the same shade in most things-- plus she has even more of a makeup addiction than I do!!! I don't wanna be an enabler lol! Plus, I know that whatever I give her would probably just sit in the bottom of a drawer somewhere under heaps of other products until it expires anyway.

A third option that I am genuinely considering is simply getting rid of all my makeup & deciding not to wear makeup anymore. I guess during this period of illness/recovery, I've gotten pretty used to seeing my bare face all the time, and realized how much time & effort & energy doing makeup takes anyway. And how much money is saved by not buying any! Plus, wearing makeup sets a higher bar for my appearance which makes it so that both I & others seem to think my bare face looks "wrong" without it (which is obviously not great for my self-image). Like at my last job, I wore makeup almost every day, and when I didn't, I was guaranteed to hear "are you sick?" or "you look tired" at least once during my shift -- but I probably would've never heard that if I hadn't been wearing makeup almost every day in the first place. Of course, the downside to this is that I do enjoy wearing makeup sometimes, I find it to be a fun creative outlet (when it doesn't feel like an obligation), and so this would be taking that option away.

Obviously, I'm the only one who can answer these things for myself. But what do you guys think? Do you have any suggestions/advice for me? What would you recommend? Thanks.

Conan is in that interesting in-between place where he's no longer a small, underground, indie artist that nobody's heard of, and he's definitely broken into the mainsteam a few times, but he's also not so "big"/mainstream that he's a household name or anything. Like, he's signed to a major record label, has performed at the VMAs, has millions of monthly Spotify listeners, etc, but there's still plenty of people who've never heard of him before, and I would imagine he's able to go out in public & live his life without having to book security & stuff like that.

So would you guys say he's a "big small artist" or a "small big artist?" Not that it really matters, but I'd just be curious to see what you guys think. Personally, I'd consider him to be a small big artist, but maybe I'm overestimating his popularity because I'm biased, idk.

Specifically when it's said as unsolicited advice, or even a snarky comeback. Like not a sincere expression of concern like "are you doing ok? maybe you should talk to someone?" But either A) when you're venting to someone who simply doesn't wanna be bothered & they're trying to say "stop making this my problem" while seeming polite, or B) when you're arguing with someone & then they suggest therapy as a kind of code for "you said something I disagree with, and now I'm gonna act like that's somehow a reflection of your mental stability & sarcastically say 'you need help' as an insult."

Also, for (A) I'm not talking about venting in a way that's obviously inappropriate. But even just talking to a friend about some everyday problem, but they don't really care enough to listen or be supportive even in a bare-minimum way.

But it's also especially funny & aggravating when people say this to me, because it's like, "funny you assume I haven't been to therapy..." But also therapy is not a cure-all or a silver bullet for all of life's problems. So even if someone is actively in therapy, that doesn't mean they've attained Enlightenment & will never have any problems ever again!

Edit: Also because like, people lump all "therapy" together as though it's the same thing, but when people say "go to therapy," it's like which kind? Cognitive behavioral therapy? Dialectical Behavior Therapy? Psychodynamic therapy? Acceptance & commitment therapy? EMDR therapy? Gestalt therapy? There are SO many different kinds, but most people just think therapy is therapy, and don't give it any deeper thought than that. It goes to show that they're not saying it from a genuinely caring place, they just wanna get you off their back.

Which Conan album or song(s) took a while to "grow on" you? Like, you didn't like it much at first, but over time it became one of your favorites?

For me, probably Wishbone as an album, and a lot of the songs on it. Now it's one of my favorite albums (still doesn't beat Superache tho lol), but when I first listened to it last August, I was kinda... underwhelmed. I don't know why, I just didn't find any of the songs particularly memorable or interesting or emotionally moving-- well, except for the 3 singles & Nauseous. So I didn't listen to the album again for months (except those 4 songs) until earlier this spring when I was bored of my playlists & looking for something else to listen to & decided to revisit it. Then I was like, "holy shit, this is actually a really solid album-- why did I think this wasn't good??" and it's continued to grow on me ever since then. Especially Class Clown, Sunset Tower, My World, Care, Romeo... (that's almost half of them lol)

So what about you guys?

Okay, so obviously it's super annoying & impractical to type out the full title "you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love" every time we talk about the album. So far I've observed a few ways people have been trying to work around this.

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First off, YSPSFAGSIL looks like a homophobic slur in the middle of the word and/or reminds some people of Vagsil. Neither of which are cute.

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Second, I've seen some people shorten it to half the title-- either "you seem pretty sad" or "girl so in love." I've also seen this done as an acronym-- so either YSPS or GSIL. Any one of these variations is problematic because without further context/explanation, it is unclear whether you are talking about the album as a whole, or just the side A or side B of the album individually.

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Another problem is inconsistency. Since there's no consensus on how to shorten this album title, it can get a bit confusing when everyone's using something different.

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I want to propose a solution!

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I think we should all start using YSPS/GSIL as the official abbreviation, and I'll explain why. First of all, it's almost the full acronym, so there's no confusion about whether you're talking about the whole album or one side of it. Second of all, leaving out the "F" and "A" in the middle prevents the icky words from appearing that we want to avoid. And it's pretty common for acronyms to leave out filler words like "for" and "a" anyways. Thirdly, putting the slash in the middle to replace the "F" & "A" helps keep it more legible AND divides the title into the 2 sides of the album, which I think is pretty cool.

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I don't know, what do you guys think? I hope I did a good enough job explaining this! Let me know what you think down below!

Hi everyone!

I have a Havanese dog who is 1 year and 9 months old. I've had her for a year and a half now, and she is an absolute angel. She is my first dog, so I was a little nervous, but she's been very easy to train & take care of so far.

About a month before I got her, I had to stop working & move back home with my parents due to some disabling health issues. (I'm in my early/mid-20s.) Fortunately nothing permanent, so I am in the process of recovery. Since then, I have been unemployed for the past year and a half or so, but am just starting to get back on my feet. I'm hoping to get a job within the next 3 months, and to move out about 6 months after that-- so in 9 months from now, give or take. It might take up to a year, but hopefully not longer than that.

Though I am VERY excited about my future & to finally start feeling better again & move forward with my life, I am worried about how these changes to my schedule & eventually location are going to impact my baby girl.

First of all, she's gotten pretty used to having me around all the time. I know Havanese are often called "people dogs" or "velcro dogs" because they really like to be around their humans as much as possible & generally don't do well being left alone for hours at a time. So I'm worried about how it's going to affect her once I start working, especially if I'm gone for 8+ hour shifts. Sometimes my parents are home during the day, because they both work non-traditional hours, but I would imagine she'd still miss me. Plus once I move out & am living in a single apartment, no one else will be there to keep her company during the day. (It's not likely that I will have roommates for the first year or more.)

I have left her home alone before, but usually not for stretches of more than 3-4 hours at a time. She almost never does anything destructive while I'm gone (usually just sleeps, it seems), but I wouldn't even want her to be quietly in distress.

Second of all, I know she's probably gonna miss my parents a lot once I move out with her. She's gotten very used to greeting them every morning & every time they come home, and getting attention & affection from them as well. Given the location of where I want to move to, it's unlikely that I'll be able to visit home more than once or twice a year.

Third & last of all, the location I plan to move to is in a much colder climate, and I'm worried about whether she'll be able to handle it. I know that since Havanese dogs originally came from Cuba, they are much better-suited to warmer climates & don't do well with the cold. My girl is very tiny -- only 8 pounds -- and seems like she would get cold easily. Currently, I live in the Southern US, and I plan to move to New England. Vermont, to be specific. She does fine with the climate here, and it does get cold sometimes in the winters, but NOTHING like Vermont.

Anyways, so I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone else have a similar experience they would like to share, as well as advice for making this transition as smooth as possible for my girl? I know it is inevitable that she will probably experience some distress with all the sudden changes, but I just want to make sure her needs are prioritized. So anyone who works 8-hour shifts & lives alone, lives in a cold climate, and/or moved away from family member who their dog had grown attached to, please feel free to share.

I hope I don't seem totally crazy or like I'm overthinking this whole situation either. I feel like most dog owners would not put this much thought into it & simply think "it's just a dog; it'll get used to whatever!" But she is truly my world, and I want her to have the best possible life & to be a responsible human caretaker for her. She's brought me so much comfort & joy & companionship through some pretty shitty times, and I want to make sure I'm there for her too.

Fuck so-called "medication." I wish it was illegal. I wish it didn't exist. I honestly don't even believe anyone who claims they were "helped" by it, let alone that it "saved their life." Bullshit. Honestly, is it really life or death for everyone??? Or do they just say that to shut us down?? How do they KNOW they would've died otherwise?? They can't prove it! If psych drugs didn't exist & that wasn't an option to begin with, chances are they would've just found a different coping mechanism & a way to survive. I wish the pro-med crowd would just fuck right off sometimes. I'm so sick & tired of hearing their stinking rhetoric everywhere I turn. Yet I'M the one who's villainized for "pill-shaming" when I speak my truth. HA! The insanity... it really does feel like escaping a cult, only to be horrified by how brainwashed everyone is who's still in it.

So first of all, this happened about 5 years ago. I honestly hadn't thought about it much until today, because I was reading someone else's story online about what they called sexual assault, and I realized it felt eerily familiar to the experience I'm about to describe (other than the fact that theirs was with a friend & not someone they were dating). It kinda freaked me out. I remember questioning if it was normal at the time, but I never would've thought it was "rape" or even SA. It just had me rethinking everything, in the same way that I felt when I first discovered what "emotional abuse" was & it had me rethinking my entire upbringing.

For context, I was19(F) and a freshman in college at the time. The person it happened with was 20(M) and a junior in college. At the time, I was a virgin & it was my first college relationship. He had more sexual & relationship experience than I did.

There are three separat incidents I'm going to describe. The third one is the one I'm most concerned about, but I think the first 2 are important & provide context.

The first incident was the first time we kissed. We were in the same friend group, and had known each other for a couple months by now, and had just admitted our feelings for each other literally seconds before. So this kiss was definitely our first time "getting physical" in any way (besides kinda cuddling on the couch a few times "as friends"). The kiss itself was fine, but he then grabbed my butt in the middle of it, and that took me by surprise. He didn't ask permission, and I didn't say that was okay. I'd never had someone do that to me before. I didn't pull away either, but it did make me uncomfortable. At the same time, I guess I kind of felt flattered too, though, and maybe that's why I let it slide. 

The second incident was after our first date. We went back to my dorm room & laid in my bed to watch a movie. It was a small bed, so he was kind of spooning around me. I was totally fine with that, btw. But then, without saying anything, he kept trying to sneak his hand up my shirt to touch my bra/boobs. This made me very uncomfortable. At first, I tried moving his hand away subtly, like by pretending I was just shifting my position in the bed & hoping his hand would fall away. But every time, he just moved it back. Then I tried moving his hand more overtly, by using my hand to push his away. He still didn't stop. I'm not sure if I'm remembering right, but I think I might've then said something jokingly to try to get him to stop, while also diffusing the discomfort/tension I was feeling, like "oh, you got some wandering hands there, huh?" But I don't think I told him "no" or "stop." I don't remember what he said or did next. It didn't escalate though, that was all he did.

This next thing I'm not counting as a separate "incident," because it's pretty minor, but worth including: He quite often asked if we could go back to my dorm room after dates. At the time I was naive & thought he just wanted to hang out in my room, but looking back, I now realize he probably thought he was gonna "get lucky" if we did that, and didn't wanna have sex at his place because he had roommates and I didn't. So when he asked if we could go up to my room, I usually said no because my room was too messy & I was embarrassed. (That was actually the truth, not just a white lie because I didn't want him to.) But he was very pushy & would keep asking, almost unable to take no for an answer. He would insist that it was fine & he didn't mind a bit of a mess, but it felt more pressuring than reassuring. Finally, after hearing around a half-dozen no's, he would give up. He never forced himself into my room, but it was still kinda weird & pushy.

This third instance is the big one. So it was at the end of fall semester/start of winter break, but we were both still on campus, and no one else was there, so I went over to his dorm to hang out for a bit, just the two of us. We were gonna watch this show (or movie, I forget which) that he'd been telling me about, so I was kind of excited, but mostly just to be getting to cuddle/spend time with him. So we were laying on the bean bag chair together cuddling & watching the show, and it's very important to note at this point that I was wearing these very loose, flowy pants made out of a stretchy, soft material-- the kind of pants so flowy that they almost look like a long skirt. As we were laying there watching, he slowly started to trace his fingers up my leg, under my pant leg. He got all the way up to my thigh, and kinda stroked it for a while. No words exchanged. It felt a little strange & uncomfortable, but I figured maybe that's just what people in college relationships do, and I, a naive little virgin freshman, needed to play along lest I seem "immature" in front of my junior-year boyfriend who I wanted to impress. Then he started inching his hand closer & closer towards my genitals... then his hand was on my genitals, but outside of my underwear... then it was inside my underwear, but not penetrating... and then his fingers were inside me. He was now inside my vagina, fingering me. Again, he did not ask for consent. I did not give my consent. I also did not say "no." No words were exchanged at all. Looking back, I now realize I kind of froze when this happened. I wasn't sure whether I was against it or okay with it, but I definitely felt some level of discomfort. I was trying to process what was happening in real time. Again, I was a virgin-- had never had sex of any kind with anyone before. I had no idea what was happening or how I was "supposed to be" reacting to it. I just kinda stared at the screen, pretending like nothing was happening, but I was no longer able to focus on the show we were supposed to be "watching." He kept going for... a while. Again, just fingering me in my vagina, nothing more. When the show was eventually over, he stopped. Then I think one of us made a joke about how we weren't really watching the show anyway, and we both kinda laughed. That's all I remember.

Neither of us brought that up until a day or two later, when we drove up to the mountains for a hiking date. I had to pee while we were in the middle of the woods, so I went behind a bush or something & asked him not to look. He said, "or you could just go in front of me, I don't mind," and I said no, I wasn't comfortable with that. At another point when he had to pee, I turned around, and he said he didn't mind me looking, but I said that's okay, I was turned away for my own sake too because I wasn't comfortable looking. Then at some point, he asked me, "so... how was that for you the other day? did you like that?" (referring to the fingering he did to me while we were watching the show the other day.) My answer was something like, "oh, it was... okay. I mean, it was good, I guess. I don't really know." He seemed disappointed by this answer somehow. It seemed like my reaction was not what he was hoping for & he got kinda sulky about it. It didn't last long, but I think it's worth noting. Anyways, I just remember feeling uncomfortable & confused at the question & still not knowing exactly what all that was about.

Anyways. I guess I'm kinda wondering if this "counts" as some form of sexual assault, though a part of me recoils at that term for fear of sounding "dramatic" or taking it away from true survivors & diluting its meaning. Maybe there's another word for it that doesn't sound quite as intense? Like something to describe the gray area between "fully consenting" and "sexual assault." Like "not completely consensual, but not completely nonconsensual either." I guess at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what it would technically be "classified" as. What happened happened; who cares about the label, right? But I'm struggling to figure out whether this truly "traumatized" me or not. Like I said, I didn't really think of it that way til recently, though I did always think it was kinda weird. I think at the time, it was just so normalized to me, I didn't perceive that anything was "off." Well, I guess I kinda did, but I just brushed it off. But honestly, this was not really a stand-out moment in the sea of complex trauma I was swimming in at that point. I've just always felt like other people are somewhat entitled to me -- including my body -- and that saying "no" to them is selfish/ a personal attack on them. This was just another thread in that pattern. 

I know that they say "not saying no doesn't imply consent," but I do feel like it's kinda on me for not being more vocal or communicating boundaries. As in, I should've said "no" if I didn't want it. But that's where another piece of the guilt creeps in... I'm not sure if I wanted it or not. Maybe I kinda did...?? I mean, I couldn't tell if I was enjoying it or not. Maybe I was. Does that change things?? I don't know. I mean, I have heard that rape survivors often feel guilt or question themselves because they felt pleasure (or even orgasmed) during their attack. But I don't think this was rape, so maybe that doesn't apply here... I don't know...

Someone said this in another sub. I mentioned that abusive relationships are the exception. They acknowledged that abuse isn't the victim's fault, but also doubled down on their prior statement that "we all have something to take accountability for" in any relationship, even abusive ones. That seems contradictory to me.

I don't know, I've heard some version of this statement repeated time & time again, and it bugs the hell out of me. It just seems like a subtle form of victim-blaming. I think of all the times I was told "relationships are a 50/50" & "it takes 2 to tango" & "you just gotta take responsibility for yourself," and how badly it fucked me up for so long.

Maybe I'm taking it way too personally, but I'm just wondering if anyone else gets this irritated by little sayings like these as well.

Or if you're not a person who cries to music, what's a line that makes you really emotional every time you hear it?

(you can list more than one)

I'll go first:

• "They all say that it gets better, it gets better the more you grow, yeah they all say that it gets better, it gets better, but what if I don't?" - teenage dream
• "And when the clouds won't iron out, and the monsters creep into your house, and every door is hard to close" - hope ur ok (but really the entire bridge through the end)
• *the entire chorus of stranger*

If you're not a person who cries to music, then what's a line that makes you feel emotional whenever you hear it?

You can list more than one :)

I'll go first:

• "Like if I get older now, I'll let my younger version down" - Class Clown
• "How could you hurt a little kid? I can't forget, I can't forgive you, cause now I'm scared that everyone I love will leave me" - Family Line
• "I know that it's in me to really love someone, but that's not a thing that I learned from my loved ones" - Nauseous
• *the entire bridge of Summer child*

I feel like a lot of people are making very pearl-clutching moralistic claims about "sexualizing children" in this conversation, yet I am wondering how many of those people actually have first-hand experience with the repercussions of society's normalization of sexualizing young girls, i.e. CSA.

In most of the discourse I've come across, I've noticed that it's almost treated like an abstract concept for debate & discussion, as though it doesn't affect real people in real ways. I could be wrong, but I doubt most of these people are involved in activism or advocacy against CSA in their daily lives; it's just a moral stance they take only when it fits their agenda for the argument they're trying to make.

So I'd be curious to hear the perspectives of actual CSA survivors, because I feel like they're the ones whose voices should be centered most in this conversation. I don't know if anyone feels comfortable enough to share about that here -- you don't have to share graphic details of your abuse or anything (I honestly don't think the sub would allow it) -- but just your reactions to the dress controversy itself, like if it makes you uncomfortable & if you truly feel it (or the conversation surrounding it) has any impact on the "sexualization of children" or not.

Of course, I don't want anyone to feel pressured to share, as I know it can be a really difficult thing to talk about publicly (even if it is anonymously on reddit). Only share if you feel comfortable. And again, I'm just asking about your opinions/reactions on the dress itself (& surrounding conversation), not for you to share your trauma explicitly.

I hope this post comes across as respectful, because that is my intention. I would never wanna make anyone uncomfortable or come across super insensitively about this topic. Please let me know if this post is breaking any rules or out of line in any other way, and I will be happpy to remove it!

Edit: It has been brought to my attention that this post has made some survivors uncomfortable. I understand that it comes across like I've let my own personal biases/pre-formed opinions seep into the wording of this post & am just looking for validation of my own viewpoints. I sincerely apologize for this. My intention was to invite survivors to share their perspectives so that the rest of us (myself included) could hopefully listen to & learn from them.

To clarify, I've heard the "what-about-the-children" argument used on both sides of the debate. I have heard both critics & defenders of Olivia alike -- including Olivia herself -- use arguments about "sexualizing children" & "normalizing pedophilia" to make their points. However, I did a poor job of expressing that in my original post, and it does come across as biased & one-sided.

I also understand that CSA survivors are not a monolith, and there are many different experiences of CSA, and many different perspectives held by those with lived experience. I would never expect any individual CSA survivor to serve as a representative of all CSA survivors & their experiences. Again, I am sorry that the wording of the original question came across rather tone-deaf in this way.

Again, thank you to those who have kindly given me this feedback, and I'm sorry it was necessary in the first place. I have already learned a lot from this dialogue to help better inform my own perspective. Thank you.