"Directions" was composed decades ago at the age of 18.

It was part of the very first 10 or so songs I’d ever written.

It was meant to be a funny catchy little bop about obvious matters of
A young man.

The original demo (recorded at age 20) is still very much in the driver's seat and
includes ALL the multi-tracked guitar parts and the lead vocals (which I also sang
As my own backup on)

Back then I was so insecure about the sound of my voice that I decided double layering my voice somehow made it better, lol not sure what sense that made.

In Bandlab Midi I added, well probably too much lol but, Cello, Tuba, French Horn, Organ, Choir, Snare drum.

With Suno, I added a back up vocalist rotoscoped to the original, but left my original vocal as the lead vocal. A bass that is rotoscoped to a low end guitar line I had multi tracked back then, a Djembe, and some Trumpet hits here and there.

The visuals are a slightly modified face of a real photo of me from the age of 18 around the time I wrote the song and I used a Motion track to control the image like a puppet. So the body language of the avatar is actually me. It did a crappy job of translating my guitar playing. Definitely could be better but I ran out of credits trying to dial it in. Then I brought it all together in Adobe Premiere. The Bob Dylan postergeist was not planned but I didn’t have the credits to fix it even if I wanted to lol.

At the end where I laugh and say “Probably sounds like shit” that’s from the original demo.

This is actually the second version of the song I’ve posted. The first was the very first video I put on my channel and was 100% performed by suno (but obviously faithfully covered to this one) To be honest, I still prefer that All Suno one. I’m remaking it now because the scope of my project changed from originally supposed to be all Suno performed to this Hybrid version I am now focused on.

You can see the SUNO ONLY Performance of this composition here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdFKBAfP3gw

If you happen to listen to both, I'd be super curious to hear which you prefer, if you are like me and prefer the SUNO only or if you prefer the hybrid?

Penny for ye thoughts?

"Human Slop", formerly known as "Jam in the Sunroom" composed around the age of 23.

It was a spontaneous jam between the witchdoctor and I on the guitar.

The original demo is still in the driver's seat and includes all the guitar.

With suno I added some synth, midi (new suno studio feature), bass, and simple drums and TUBA! The new suno studio 2.0 is amazing and frankly there is no going back, it’s truly gonna
be a game changer for traditional musicians who are open minded to AI tools.

I could go on a rant about the new studio and the direction it’s heading but I’ll save that for another time.

The visuals were taken back then when we first got HD camcorders (they were a big deal back then). We were in the sunroom at my Dad’s house just playing one summer night when this beat struck.

As some meta trolling, I turned the witchdoctor and I into Robot versions of ourselves with AI.

Since I’m always being accused of being an AI bot, I figured I’d give the people what they want!

Anyway it's amazing how well you can map the real movements, guitar playing, and facial expressions onto the animation. Do you have any clue how time consuming/difficult and expensive to produce something like this Pre AI was? It’s amazing. CGI for all!

For you aunties, you can call my music slop but it is HUMAN SLOP!

Penny for ye thoughts?

I wrote “Better in the dark” nearly 2 decades ago at the age of 20 or 21 (can’t remember exactly)

There is not really any deep backstory to it, it’s somewhat of a gimmick song. Back in those days there was a very popular song called “I’ll follow you into the dark” by an emu band called Death Cab for Cutie.

And I would always sing It to myself as “You look better in the dark” so I basically pulled that thread and wrote this hillbilly romp stomp instead. I suppose maybe the lack of dating success I had (generally) at that time fueled some motivation for it, but the song is meant to be humorous.

Recently an old friend found a burnt disc I had given him back in 2009 called “Monkey Pee, Monkey Poop” and on it was this little surprise! I didn’t know this demo existed and thought All I had of this song was a very poor sound quality open mic video (more on that in a minute)

But apparently me and the witchdoctor belted this out one recording session! I am on the guitar and lead vocal and witchdoctor is backup vocal and playing the Djembe (type of drum)

With Suno I added a rotoscoped vocal (although my vocal is still in the lead) bass, fiddle, banjo and hand claps.

The video is literally me and the witchdoctor playing this song in our college open mic days from the late 2000’s.Keep in mind the recorded demo is not this specific performance so the sync is a little off but close enough to be enjoyable. So imagine your back in the late 2000’s watching us make fools of ourselves on our campus open mic stage!

Penny for ye thoughts?

TL;DR: AI music tech giant Suno is pivoting toward traditional music production by releasing Studio 2.0, introducing MIDI support and DAW-style editing tools.

Key Highlights:

• MIDI Support (Finally): Users can now sketch out ideas and input MIDI alongside AI-generated elements.
• Built-In Synth Only: You’re currently restricted to Suno's proprietary synth—a basic two-oscillator wavetable plugin with three envelopes.
• No VST Support: There is no third-party VST plugin support, meaning you can't load external virtual instruments or FX from native ecosystems (Arturia, Native Instruments, etc.).
• Target Audience: Bridges the gap for creators wanting to edit AI stems in one place, but it remains in prosumer territory rather than replacing full-fledged DAWs like Ableton, FL Studio, or Logic Pro.

Hopefully in time either Suno or Band lab will become an all in one tool for workflows like mine and others who bridge the gap between AI and traditional musicianship.

What do you hope to accomplish and bigger picture, what do you think 10 years from now things will look like?

The floor is yours

I wrote “More than I had” at the age of 19.

I think it was just to express a level of perceived guilt and shame I had at the time for taking people and things for granted, probably mostly thinking of my Mother.

The original demo is still in the drivers seat and includes all the guitar, all the keyboard and my lead vocal and a basic foot stomp.

With suno I rotoscoped my vocals for a better singer and added a bass and cellist accent.

The visuals are all real (though obscured through the lens distortion effect and lighting. In places where I thought I was too visible I put it on the tv within the tv lol or simply blurred it.

Anyway, you’re getting a real look at the real basement (at least one of them) I lived and recorded in. Though FYI, the video wasn’t recorded for the song until some years after writing it.

Anyway, Penny for ye thoughts?

Suno has published a statement outlining its guiding principles for AI music creation, ongoing artist initiatives, and several upcoming changes designed to promote originality, improve transparency, and reduce abuse within the music ecosystem.

1. Core Principles & Working with Artists

• Human-Centered AI: Suno believes AI should enhance human creativity—not replace the emotions, experiences, and imperfections that make music meaningful.
• Collaboration with Artists: The company works directly with artists, songwriters, musicians, and producers, including weekly writing camps, to improve its tools based on real creative workflows.
• Artist Support: Through Spark, Suno's funding and incubator program, emerging unsigned artists receive grants, mentorship, and marketing support. Suno also says it's exploring additional ways for artists to benefit from AI-powered music creation.

2. Originality Over Imitation

• No Artist Names in Training Metadata: Suno says it intentionally excludes artist names from its training metadata to encourage original music rather than imitation.
• Artist Prompt Protection: Requests that reference specific artists are not fulfilled directly. Instead, artist names are removed and prompts are redirected toward descriptive musical characteristics.
• Content Screening: Uploaded audio and lyrics are screened using third-party services such as Audible Magic and Musixmatch to help detect potentially unauthorized use of copyrighted material.

3. Upcoming Downloads Policy (Reducing Large-Scale Abuse)

• Limiting Mass Distribution: Suno plans to introduce a new downloads policy aimed at making large-scale distribution of AI-generated music to streaming platforms more difficult.
• Designed to Preserve Legitimate Use: Suno says the changes are intended to target abuse while preserving the professional, creative, and personal ways most users create and use music. The company states these changes should not affect the vast majority of users.

4. New Transparency & Anti-Fraud Tools

• Transparency Features: Suno is beginning to roll out tools that allow music generated on its platform to be identified when shared elsewhere, aligning with emerging industry standards.
• Watermarking & Fingerprinting: In the coming weeks, Suno will adopt durable, tamper-resistant audio watermarking and fingerprinting technology to help distribution platforms identify Suno-generated content and combat fraud and misuse without affecting audio quality.
• Disclosure Choice: Suno says these tools are intended to provide transparency, while artists and platforms should ultimately decide what they choose to disclose.

5. Updated Community Guidelines & Trust & Safety

• Clearer Rules: Suno has updated its Community Guidelines to make existing policies easier to understand and more explicit.
• Prohibited Activities: These include recreating existing songs, uploading content users don't have rights to use, unauthorized voice or likeness generation, scams, spam, fake engagement, bot activity, deceptive audio presented as authentic, and other harmful behavior.
• Enforcement: Suno's Trust & Safety team proactively reviews content and user reports, with enforcement ranging from warnings and temporary suspensions to permanent account bans and, where appropriate, referrals to relevant authorities.

Overall Message

Suno's announcement reinforces its position that AI should help people create original music—not imitate existing artists. The company is pairing expanded creative tools with stronger safeguards, including download restrictions, transparency technology, and clearer community rules, with the stated goal of supporting artists, reducing large-scale abuse, and fostering a healthier music ecosystem.

-What will these audio watermarks sound like? Will they be noticeable?

-Do you think these are good or bad developments in the tech for the long term?

-It sounds like they are trying to combat content farming via download limits, would this work?

I wrote “World outside” at the age of 22 nearly 2 decades ago.

The song is about feeling alienated from a cold and uncaring society.

And that daunting feeling of dread to having to go out into the world when
you are just not up to it emotionally.

Specifically, for me, one of the main catalysts for the song was after graduating
College in the years after the 08 financial crises, how despite the promise
Of higher education and getting in a shit ton of debt for it, no one was hiring and
I was even applying to the same kind of jobs I’d have worked in Highschool and still no luck!

Eventually, I did get a job as an overnight maintenance/custodian at a movie theater I worked at in High-School.

Paying back student loans at an hourly rate just above minimum wage.. Mmmmgreat

The original demo’s vocals are still very audible in the mix but the original guitar was too poor of quality to include.Back then I had layered 2 guitar tracks and it was very sloppy, even had the sounds of me shuffling stuff around on my desk and picking up my headphones in it! Argh!

To be fair to my younger self, this wasn’t meant to be an official demo (by basement standards) but the only other recording I had of this song was a college open mic performance, but the camera was about 30 feet back from the stage and was even worse quality.

So I had suno copy my chords and strum pattern and clean it up. Then re-added my guitar work with my USB-C smart guitar, so you're still hearing me and suno play the rhythm guitar. This song really calls for a “wall of sound” effect so it works great.

Additionally I added my Midi Keyboard Tuba and French horn.

With Suno, I also added stomp/clap percussion, and bass and as always a vocalist that actually sounds good (unlike my screeching)

When it came to the visuals, I could think of nothing more representative of feeling alienated from society than folks experiencing homelessness in the winter months. So I grabbed some shots from across youtube.

Penny for ye thoughts?

(MOD NOTE: At the end of the day this is very unlikely to have any noticeable inconvienances for suno's user base. But Suno will likely have to pay a settlement to GEMA. Once V6 model drops which is trained off of the now licensed catalog of WMG this will not really be an issue in due time)

A German court has ruled that AI music generator Suno infringed copyright by reproducing protected songs without authorization, marking one of the most significant legal defeats for a generative AI music company to date. While the ruling can still be appealed, it could have major implications for how AI companies train their models in Europe.

Key Details

🎵 GEMA's Evidence

GEMA (Germany's music rights organization) based its case on six songs, including:

• Mambo No. 5
• Daddy Cool
• Forever Young
• Big in Japan
• Rasputin
• Atemlos

According to the court, simple prompts generated outputs that were sufficiently similar to these copyrighted works to constitute infringement.

⚖️ The Court's Ruling

The Munich Regional Court found that Suno violated copyright law and ordered the company to:

• Stop unauthorized use of the protected works involved in the case.
• Disclose profits connected to the infringement.
• Pay damages (the amount will be determined later).

The court also rejected Suno's argument that reproductions made during AI training were permissible in this case.

🛡️ Suno's Response

Suno says its AI is designed to create new, original music, not copy existing songs, and strongly disagrees with the ruling. The company is considering an appeal.

Separately, in ongoing U.S. litigation brought by major record labels, Suno acknowledged that its training data includes essentially all reasonably available high-quality music from the open internet.

📚 This Isn't GEMA's First Win

Earlier this year, GEMA also won a copyright case against OpenAI involving unlicensed song lyrics. That decision is also under appeal.

Why This Matters

This decision is significant because it challenges the argument that AI companies can freely use copyrighted music for training without permission—at least under German copyright law.

Importantly, the ruling does not automatically require every AI company to license all training data, nor does it settle the question of U.S. "fair use." However, it strengthens the legal position that AI developers may need licenses to train on copyrighted works in Europe.

If upheld on appeal, this could become one of the most influential AI copyright decisions in Europe. While the ruling is only binding in Germany, it is likely to influence future litigation across the EU and increase pressure on AI companies to negotiate licensing deals rather than rely on unlicensed training data.

Sources

• Reuters – German court rules against Suno: https://www.reuters.com/world/german-court-rules-ai-music-firm-suno-broke-copyright-rules-2026-07-31/
• Munich Regional Court (press release): https://www.justiz.bayern.de/gerichte-und-behoerden/landgericht/muenchen-1/presse/2026/6.php
• Variety article (the one summarized in the original post)

TL;DR: The music industry is pushing for clear labels on AI-generated music. Here’s why labels want them and how they’d actually work.

Yes, I used AI to summarize the article for me. Ya'll think I'm gonna type this shit out by hand when we have LLM's? I suppose you send pigeon carriers instead of phones right?

This announcement was put together by the Recorded Industry Association of America (RIAA), the American Association of Independent Music (A2IM), the Worldwide Independent Network (WIN), the European Independent Music Companies Association (IMPALA), the Recording Academy, SAG-AFTRA and the Human Artistry Campaign.

As AI-generated tracks flood streaming platforms, major record labels and music industry groups are pushing hard for mandatory "AI labels" on songs. Here is a quick breakdown of what’s happening and why:

Why the Record Business Wants AI Labels

1. Protecting Artist Rights & Royalties: Labels want to prevent AI models from being trained on copyrighted music without permission or compensation, and ensure human artists aren't squeezed out of streaming payouts by cheap, mass-produced AI tracks.
2. Transparency for Listeners: Streaming platforms are being overwhelmed by AI-generated "slop" (background noise, fake artists, cloned voices). Industry execs argue listeners deserve to know if they're listening to a real human or an algorithm.
3. Preventing Deepfakes & Impersonation: Cloned voices (like the viral fake Drake/Weeknd track) pose a major threat to an artist's brand and likeness.

How AI Labels Would Actually Work

• Watermarking & Metadata: The primary technical solution involves embedding digital watermarks or invisible metadata (like C2PA standards) directly into the audio file during creation. This data acts as a "digital passport" tracking whether AI was used.
• Tiered Labeling Systems: Rather than a simple "AI vs. Human" binary, proposed systems suggest different levels of disclosure:

AI (upper case Labels)

• Lead vocal performance generated by AI (e.g., transforming a scratch vocal or generating an AI vocal track over human-written instrumentation).
  • Key instrumental performance generated by AI (e.g., singing/playing live vocals over a Suno/Udio-generated instrumental track).
  • Entirely prompt-generated AI music.

ai (lower case labels)

Lowercase "ai" (AI-Assisted): Human leads vocals and primary instruments, but AI is used for secondary/expressive elements (e.g., mixing tools, minor sound design).

• Platform Enforcement: Streaming services like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube would read this metadata and display clear tags to users, while using detection tools to flag unlabeled AI uploads.

The Challenges Ahead

• Defining "AI": Music production has used algorithmic tools (like Auto-Tune, drum quantizing, and smart plugins) for decades. Drawing the line between standard digital production and "AI" isn't simple.
• Bad Actors: Unscrupulous creators can strip metadata or bypass watermarks before uploading, making enforcement an uphill battle.

What do you think? Should streaming platforms mandate AI tags, or will it be impossible to enforce?

AI Summary of the Article ( I know the horror of saving time)

🎸 The Rolling Stones on AI: The Good, The Bad, and Keith's Take on "Nursery Rhymes"

In a recentBillboardinterview covered byRolling Stone, the legendary Glimmer Twins laid out clear boundaries on how artificial intelligence should (and shouldn't) be used in music.

🎙️ Mick Jagger's Perspective: Original Input vs. "Lazy" Clones

❌ What He Doesn't Want (Imitation & Shortcut Writing)

• AI-Generated Clones: Jagger drew a hard line against using AI to mimic specific artists, stating, "Obviously I don’t want to be imitated by AI, vocally and instrumentally, and the band doesn’t... I don’t want people just putting stuff out there that can sound exactly like the Rolling Stones."
• Scratch-Built AI Songs: He slammed people who rely on AI to generate a song completely from scratch, calling it lazy and declaring, "If you were any kind of creative person, you wouldn’t do that."

✅ What He's Open To (Originality & Creative Tools)

• Genuine Human Craftsmanship: He isn't against technology if it serves original artistry: "If someone wants to make music by AI, go ahead. But it has to be original — you have to have your own input and your own thoughts."
• Visual/Deepfake Experiments: The band embraced AI-adjacent deepfake technology for the music video for "In the Stars"(off their album Foreign Tongues), using digital alterations to make real musicians look like younger versions of the Stones from 1968.

🎸 Keith Richards' Perspective: A Demand for Pure Originality

🚫 His Skepticism of Copycat Culture

• Rejecting Synthesis: Richards expressed deep disinterest in AI used to mimic or rehash existing styles, stating, "We want new input. We don’t want more and more copying and synthesizing."
• The "Nursery Rhyme" Critique: Playing down how repetitive or basic derivative music can get, Richards added, "Music could do a lot better than just trying to copy itself. After all, it’s pretty simple stuff — this is not Beethoven or Bach, and I’ve no doubt AI can do that, but so what? ... Surely there’s enough originality without having to copy nursery rhymes."

EDIT: thank you everyone for the engagement on this thought exercise. Just an FYI, I am leaving for a few days for a camping trip and will no longer be able to attend this post.

Please be kind to one another if you are here and discussing this regardless of which side of the issue you fall on..

Thank you

As Top Mod in this sub, I want to play devils advocate for a moment and see if we can't help define some common ground with the "Aunties", well at least the good faith ones.

The nature of my project puts me squarely in between the two worlds.

I'm resurrecting actual songs/demos from my youth, providing the lyrics, melodies, structure, pacing, of the arrangement before it ever touches suno.

As a result use cases like mine have occasionally been perceived as too "traditional" for the "AI bros" and too "AI" for traditionalists who have a seemingly zero tolerance attitude toward the tech, I've even been called a "traitor" which is amusing to me.

Thus I think use cases like mine (which there are many), occupy a middle ground that I believe the dust will eventually settle at.

While I recognize, most of the negativity is brought from the Auntie side, there are things I've picked up on from the Pro side that I think are not helpful to finding a resolution between the two sides.

I see a lot of people in this space calling themselves "Music Creators or even musicians." We need to stop. If you aren't composing the melody, the harmony, and the musical structure, you aren't "creating" the music.

You are a Curator.

In the song writing process there are several roles, that often are filled by one person, but not always

If we look at traditional roles, we have:

• The Lyricist: The person who writes the narrative.

If you write your lyrics, as you should if you plan on sharing your work here, you certainly are entitled to Lyricist. You have CREATED, lyrics. I've seen some truly breathtaking lyrics by some Suno users and they should absolutely be proud of that. But Lyrics without a matching composition, is a poem, not a song.

• The Composer: The person who constructs the melody, harmony, and arrangement.

If you are prompting the music, regardless of how specific you are, you are skipping the act of creating music, and jumping right into the final stage, curation. Although, as you know, the more specific you are in your direction, the less random the result will be, but this still does not make one a creator of music.

Acknowledging this isn't a knock on your contribution to the final piece, it’s an admission of the actual process. You are the architects of the idea, but the AI is the architect of the sonic expression.

• The Curator: The person who directs the vision, selects the output, and refines the final product.

You are sifting through a batch of machine generated possibilities and selecting the one that best fits your vision.

Why "Curation" is the more accurate label

• The Intent Gap: A composer makes the intentional musical decisions note by note. A curator makes the decision of which of the AI’s potential outcomes feels the most "right."
• The Delegate Trap: As lyricists, we are providing the script and direction, but we are delegating the heart of the music itself to a mystery box. This is exactly why the supreme court has decided that AI created music can not be copyrighted, but the lyrics you wrote for it, can.
• The Value of Taste: Curation is a high level skill. It requires a refined ear, an understanding of genre, and the ability to discern what works. But it is not, and should not be equated with, the act of composing/creating music.

This is merely about accurately defining terms.

Why we need to end the "Music Creator" label:

• It misrepresents the workflow: When you hit "Generate," you aren't building a musical structure from the ground up. You are initiating an automated process to receive a batch of options. Your work, the "skill" part, is entirely about selection. You are looking at the output, deciding what works, and discarding what doesn't. That is the definition of curation.
• It diminishes the distinction: When we conflate "prompting for a result" with "composing a piece of music," we lose the ability to talk about what we are actually doing. We are exercising taste. We are filtering a massive amount of algorithmic noise to find one coherent piece. That is an act of curation, and it is a distinct and valid discipline in it's own right.
• The "Writer" vs. "Composer" divide: Many of us are lyricists. We write the words. We provide the what. But the AI provides the how, the actual musical expression. By pretending we are "creating" the music, we are claiming credit for the machine’s output. We need to be honest about that boundary.

The Reality Check:

Being a Curator isn't a lesser role. A great curator defines the aesthetic, sets the mood, and curates a collection that wouldn't exist without their specific eye for detail. But let’s stop hiding behind the word " music creator or musician."

It’s inaccurate, and frankly, it feels like an attempt to claim a title you haven't earned and is likely one of the things that drives the aunties crusade that we all wish would stop.

The Question for the community:

Are you comfortable being the lyricists and curators of your own AI generated music, or is there a need to label yourselves "musicians/creators" because we’re afraid that "curator" doesn't carry the same weight?

Just FYI, a tinge of Irony, in the traditional art world, the CURATOR, not the artist is the gatekeeper. Whose taste and direction guide the gallery and is a respected craft and art form in it's own right.

I have added his thoughts to the community highlights.

I enjoyed it that much.

Thank you Sea-Cockroach

I knew there was a reason I didn't ban you or worse kick the issue up to reddit

When you told a gentlemen with Parkisons to consider something medically assisted that was far beyond the pale of decency.

This song is actually a freestyle. Back in 2009 we had just gotten done listening to successful take we had just done of "Last time I did that" and were all giddy that we got a keeper and threw on this heavy distortion effect for fun.

And with zero fore thought we played this off the dome.

Which is strange because we were never very interested in metal. The lyrics were free flowing off my mind, I didn't even think about what to say, the words just sang through me. So don't ask me why I wrote it!

The visuals are that old halloween photo of me in the basement motion tracked on to a video clip I recorded about an hour ago of me acting out the part. Was my first use of the Morph tracking AI tool in Open art and I was pretty stunned how accurate it was, virtually flawless. And I'm a little creeped out how despite all the ghoulish make up it still looks exactly like me!

I always loved this though despite it being an obvious throwaway in my catalog. The original demo is still in the drivers seat and includes the intensely muddy distorted guitar, lead vocals, my buddy is screaming in the background and playing the Djembe. I additionally added more subtle instrumentation in Bandlab with my midi keys.

With Suno I added a lead vocal to strengthen and a subtle bass line in the first half before the vocals kick in. Suno had Zero concept of how to work with this lol.

Having critiques about Suno or AI in general is not just fine, it's encouraged.

But please try to use logic and reason to state your case and not "low effort" bad faith put downs or harassment.

Please and thank you.

And lastly, to you bad faith "Aunties"

Remember (see meme in comments)