r/orthotropics

Also 5 month progress

I wanted to seek advice/opinions on what a few orthos have told me vs what i want in order to get Jaw Surgery.
Ortho 1: Extract an incisor (causing me to not have a midline)
Ortho 2: Extract 2 pre molars
Ortho 3: IPR
Ortho 4: MSDO or SFOT
All orthos agreed that i had camouflaged orthodontics & my lower teeth are flared out (which i hate) and in order for me to even get Jaw Surgery, i have to decompensate. BUT i can’t do that at the moment because i don’t have the space to do it - hence the extractions.
I feel like i have nice teeth & would prefer not to remove any teeth but i am stuck between what i SHOULD do & what i want to do. I have done 2 sleep studies & both came out “clean”, no sleep apnea or anything BUT i mouth breathe & snore at night (i’ve also noticed i tend to mouth breathe a lot during the day too).

Ortho 4 had told me i could use some expansion in the top too. Advised me to do some type of MARPE/FME

I have Kaiser & i’ve consulted with 2 OMFS surgeons so far.
Dr 1: Basically said that he will follow whatever the ortho says (i found that very odd since he is the surgeon - i really wanted his own thoughts/opinions but didn’t really give much input)
Dr 2: She offered me MSDO, but told me i should consider the extractions because that would give her the most room for better movements. She also said that i could either do expansion for the upper jaw or she would be open to do a 3 piece le fort.
I’m thinking about consulting with a few more surgeons to get more thoughts on other potential avenues i can go about this but i would like some opinions/advice, especially from those that have gone though jaw surgery or some type of expansion.

What's the correct Position of the tip of tounge?

The green arrow or red?

When i try to rest my tip of tounge on the green arrow area in the photo

My tip is touching my lower teeth and not touching upper teeth

And i also have some pain in lower teeth

Howt to fix it?

Hi everyone, I noticed that when I smile showing my teeth, my smile is not symmetrical. The right side lifts higher and looks more dominant compared to the left.

I also realized I usually chew harder foods on my right side most of the time.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Can this be related to muscle imbalance from chewing habits?

Is this something that can improve over time if I start chewing evenly on both sides or do exercises? Or is it mostly permanent?

Would appreciate any advice or personal experiences.

I’ve been researching adult palate expansion and I keep running into the same issue:

Everyone says real expansion requires MARPE/MSE or surgery, but once everything is included, the cost can easily hit $20k+ which is honestly out of my budget.

So I’m wondering if there’s a realistic middle ground.

My goals are:
• widen my smile
• improve arch form
• get meaningful expansion
• improve breathing/nasal airflow
• avoid major gaps/diastemas because of work
• avoid excessive tooth tipping if possible

The reason I care about the breathing side too is because the roof of the mouth is also the floor of the nose, so in theory expansion should directly affect nasal space and airflow to some degree.

The appliances I’m considering are from:
BracesShop

Mainly:
• Schwarz / 3 Way Schwarz
• Biobloc Stage 1
• Modified Expansion Plate

I’d combine one of them with Invisalign to help control the teeth during expansion.

What I’m also curious about is whether the appliance and Invisalign interfere with each other. For example:
• would parts of the aligners need to be shaved down or modified to fit around the appliance?
• does one product usually need to be altered to make room for the other?
• does Invisalign even work well during slow expansion?

I understand the limitations as an adult:
• my suture is more fused
• slower expansion is more dentoalveolar
• some tooth tipping is unavoidable without skeletal anchorage

But are people exaggerating how ineffective these appliances are for adults?

I’m not expecting MARPE level skeletal expansion. I’m just trying to figure out if slow expansion + Invisalign can still create noticeable widening and breathing improvements without spending $20k+.

Would really appreciate hearing from adults who did expansion and alignment simultaneously.

Planning to visit an orthodontist next week but just looking for opinions on here about if i have bimaxillary protrusion and if getting braces would help fix it.

I am 16 with a flat face and Ive had premolar extractions and braces for 4 years. I really want more forward growth but I’m pretty sure braces prevent that. Should I get rid of my braces and not wear a retainer so that I can mew and potentially get more counter clockwise rotation? My fear is that not wearing retainers and braces will make my teeth go back which is inevitable but with premolar extractions I fear that it will be much worse. At the same time I absolutely hate how recessed I am in my maxilla and mandible. But would mewing even do anything since I’m 16? The plan right now at least is to get rid of the braces and retainers and focus on CCW rotation and then get Invisalign after but I don’t know if that would even do anything because Im stuck and uneducated and I don’t know what to do. Anything helps

17-18 years old, I got both in June 2025 and been using inconsistently since. Slow expansion, focus on keeping tooth from tipping and not going too hard on the sutures (since focus is on facial aesthetics).

I could send palate difference if anyone cares but just felt like sharing since this community helped me decide on this back then and it has helped me immensely. Not active on Reddit, shoot me a DM here or preferably on Discord (user : x.emo) for a response on any questions.

Yes it’s not the same EXACT angle don’t kill me over it, but the difference in maxillary projection is notable. Thank you for reading and hope this helps anyone figure out if this is something worth pursuing.

Got braces years ago and they genuinely recessed/flattened my face even though I had ZERO extractions.

Before braces my profile had noticeably better forward projection, better upper lip support and overall better facial harmony. After treatment my face looks flatter, my upper jaw area looks pushed back, my nose looks bigger relative to the rest of my face and my mouth/arch feels narrower.

And before people instantly say “it’s body dysmorphia” or “nothing changed,” I literally have before/after photos where the difference is visible. Orthodontists and people online constantly gaslight patients into believing retraction effects on the face are impossible unless teeth were extracted, but I never even had extractions done.

I think the braces/retraction mechanics pulled my teeth and soft tissue backward and reduced facial support. My side profile now genuinely looks more recessed compared to before treatment.

Has anyone here actually managed to reverse or improve this?

• Expansion?
• Reversal orthodontics?
• Any improvement in forward support/profile?
• Anything that helped after braces flattened your face?

I’m asking because this genuinely affected both my appearance and confidence and I want real answers from people who experienced similar changes instead of being told “nothing happened.”

Many of you are likely familiar with the work of Gavin James and Dennis Strokon regarding the resolution of cranial strains using ALF appliances. For complex distortions, their protocols involved utilizing asymmetrical designs combined with elastics or blocks.

For reference, here is a link to a full case study detailing the resolution of a right cranial torsion: https://orthodonticed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Cranial-Strains-and-Malocclusion-IV.-Torsion.pdf

Similarly, Dr. Savinov (a Russian dentist trained by Kaye McArthur and Bob Walker) used techniques close to those of James and Strokon. Some of his case studies have also been shared here in the group.

In speaking with several leading ALF providers—including instructors for both the ALF Interface Academy and the Nordstrom Academy—I have noticed that none of them currently follow the James/Strokon protocols. Instead, the general consensus has shifted heavily toward using symmetrical ALF designs.

For those involved in the ALF community, I would love to get your insights:

Why has the asymmetrical approach fallen out of use? Is it simply due to the technical complexity, or have better, more predictable methods for addressing cranial asymmetry been developed?

Is anyone still actively using these protocols today? I look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences.