u/Cyborginox

Hello everyone! I know this discussion has been done to death, but I’ve seen a lot of debate and want to add my two cents.

On a *moral path*, I feel like Parting Ways is the best ending. (Not factually, but personally) I say moral because Im moreso arguing it’s better than Redemption, rather than it being better than Blood Brothers. If you don’t care about morals, that is objectively the best ending, I put it on equal status with Parting Ways.

I say this for many reasons. Redemption honestly just feels..cruel at the end of the day. Like it’s the bad ending (ignoring Lone Wolf). Just like Low Morality Daniel said, “All that shit, for nothing?”. Sean witnessed his father get shot in an unjust situation, then got scared and fled from the police, living months on the run with no stable home, suffering mentally, emotionally, and physically almost every step of the way. And even on Low Brotherhood he does it all for Daniel. He had to figure out an impossible situation and *save his brother from a cult*. If he needed to be ‘redeemed’ for anything, which I don’t think he does, then the entire journey and all of his sacrifices was his redemption, and he deserves to see that goal through.

15 years is an amazingly long time. Especially for a *teenager.* In prison for *murder*. A year in the normal world is long, a year in prison would be Hell to even survive through. Sean no doubt endured some sort of physical or mental trauma in there. And for what, to satisfy the flawed justice system? When literally everything that went down, from the fight with Brett, to the shooting, to being held accountable, was in little to no way Sean’s fault? (Unless you confronted Brett I guess, but he still initiated everything).

Sure, in Parting Ways, Daniel has an ankle monitor, but it’s confirmed it tracks his location, not his powers or something (I guess his powers at the border was written off as strong winds or something because even I admit wtf-). He can’t physically see or hug Sean, but that’s a compromise I feel like they would both be okay with for different reasons. Daniel wouldn’t want Sean sacrificing 15 years for him. And Sean would be happy knowing that with him in Mexico and Daniel back in America, Daniel can still live a ‘normal life’ with Sean getting constant updates throughout the years, rather than missing 15 years of Daniel’s life (and his own) in every way.

Both are at their happiest in this ending. Daniel gets a normal life, with his only limitation being a location ankle monitor. He has his friend Chris, is raised by Claire and Stephen, he gets a new dog, has a successful life going, and he still gets to mail Sean. Many families split off to different countries, it’s not like they can’t live without each other. They will always be Wolf Brothers, and will always be close, but their paths led them different, to their own happy lives. Sean even gets to spend his time with Finn or Cassidy, presumably running their father’s shop. (Though Lyla possibly being in Redemption is cute too, though you could argue there’s no reason she can’t mail Sean too). I honestly only worry over Sean’s safety, but you can infer that without Daniel’s powers, Sean doesn’t do any big events that call attention to himself in Mexico with the gangs.

The redemption ending may be textbook “Justice”, but true justice isn’t letting a teenager spend a big chunk of his life for a crime he didn’t commit. Hell, Sean even leaves to become a new Brody in this ending, which is cool, but he doesn’t even stay with Daniel after spending that time in prison. He may show up at a few family reunions or for a drink with Daniel, but he’s pretty much going to live his life as a traumatized hermit. A Brody with a horrible upbringing.

Redemption has the theme of sacrifice, but so does Parting Ways. On Parting Ways, after trying his hardest to be moral and do the right thing, Sean is ready to risk it all, mainly himself, knowing that either through Daniels powers or being a kid, Daniel will be okay. And Daniel, being moral, doesn’t kill anyone to get Sean to Mexico. The worst is property damage. And Parting Ways also has the theme of acceptance. Both brothers understand each others wants, and come to a compromise, moreso Daniel before Sean. Sean has always wanted to go to Mexico, when Daniel can barely even speak Spanish and never wanted to go there. And Daniel gets to make a decision for himself and do the truly moral thing, while still accepting Sean’s decision and not stopping the car altogether.

In every other ending, the brothers make a huge sacrifice for the other. Redemption is Sean changing his life forever and enduring pain for Daniel. Lone Wolf sacrifices Sean’s life. Blood Brothers even sacrifices Daniel truly being happy or having the good normal life Sean and his father wanted him to (though you can argue Daniel will adjust). Parting Ways is both brothers sacrificing something more ‘smaller’/divided; the happiness they got from being around each other, but to give each other their most wanted happiness at the same time.

I don't mean a character changing for the better. Anyone CAN change, nothing is stopping them unless they're genuinely insane or damaged. It's always better for a bad person to become good rather than die or something. But that doesn't mean they're redeemed. They *changed*, and it's a huge difference people don't consider.

I don't even just mean forgiveness. It's equally (if not more) annoying when everyone just coddles and loves the mass genocide causer or the sexual assaulter just because they did a nice action. But no, I actually mean their *redemption*. But theres always the crowd of people who will HOUND you and jump down your throat to make you look dumb or downvote you, just because you think they shouldn't be made into "Oh redeemed pookie".

Take Valentino or Vox from Hazbin Hotel for example. A rapist, and a murderer/cultist/mass genocider. I see so many people arguing 'well they definitely can be redeemed, anyone can!'. In this show, Redemption means Heaven. People who literally used their human life to be awful, then continued being awful in Hell, PURELY for their own joy and benefits. Vox, in his craze of trying to kill someone, killed and took away other souls' rights to even *try* to be redeemed, and there's nothing to bring that back. Valentino literally has many souls stuck in contracts to be porn stars and strippers and prostitutes, and sexually abuses them directly. Oh, and he kills or beats you if you disobey, too. I'd be *pissed* if my pimp was being held on a pedestal and going into Heaven because he finally decided to be a normal human being, while I'm stuck with physical and emotional pain and scars for the rest of my life.

Or take Conquest and Anissa (or every damn viltrumite) in Invincible. Conquest is a crazed psychopath, and Anissa forces herself on Mark. Yet I constantly see people defending them and saying "But akshually, They have the capacity to be good, let them apologize and that's good" *No.* These were fully intelligent, capable beings who would gladly murder a lower race, and have little sense of boundaries and consent. I agree thats their lifestyle, its like a raised cultist changing their views, but their actions still need to be answered for.

And it's even crazier when their fans expect the characters to be forgiven. They literally say things like "Isn't forgiveness a virtue?" Justice is an equally important virtue. *Not letting a mass murderer go free or be part of the boys because he saved one life*. I feel like this mindset just encourages awful behaviors, and enables the view of "Oh, I can just change and everything will be okay? Well, let me just enjoy pulling all my shit until I suddenly feel too tired to, or I suddenly have regrets!". Jail in real life exists for a reason (Ignoring the fact it's useless in actual rehabilitating). In demonic/heaven based shows, Hell exists for a reason. In Hazbin Hotel, Hell isn't endless torment, it's literally just a bad town. So that "Endless punishment isnt okay for anyone" crap doesn't work here. The pimp running a succesful forced sex operation seems to be doing fine to me.

I think it just annoys me, because I see so many people go from "This murderer should be punished!" to "This literal spawn of the devil in terms of personality, is too hated! Arent they human too?!". *Especially* because 95% of the time, it's a hot character, which just gives the vibes of those real life serial killers with fangirls who want them let go. You will *not* see this same energy, at least often, for conventionally unattractive characters. So these people aren't arguing for actual good or justice, but to feed into their own egos and simping. "Fiction isn't reality, it doesn't reflect true opinions", Duh sherlock, but at this point that argument is void when Pokemon made people seriously argue for talking-animal beastiality, and people are starting to actually make arguments for tyrants *currently in our life.* And isn't it a known fact that media is responsible for so many 'awakenings'/realizations? Miss me with that. Anissa alone made people confuse their noncon fetish with her being forgivable. All of this is stuff I've seen with my own eyes, not even made up, and if you go searching in certain subs for even a few minutes you'll see the same. Give it some thought, and you'll realize morals *are* influenced by this sort of thing- or at the very least, expose a lot of pre-existing morals in people that are still problematically ignored. The internet went from joking about things like "If evil, why hot" to "Well, their victim's opinions don't matter to their redemption, so...Heaven!" (Pretty much an actual argument Ive seen)

It's just such a weird hill to die on too, that the hot assaulter shouldn't face extreme consequences. It's pretty much common consensus. Every cool or hot villain will have some group of defenders to grasp at straws to glaze them. Some of the arguments are valid, but being so aggressive against people who think otherwise, especially for your own agenda, is just hypocritical when way more problematic things are being ignored, but "Please spare this criminal" is top priority, with anyone who opposes being demolished. It's just such a weird idea to push, that everyone HAS to be redeemed and forgiven just because they can. Especially those who don't even want to, and actively continue their crimes no matter how much rehabilitation happens. At this point, Batman is as much of a criminal as Joker for letting that psycho live after 10 attempted arrests and moments of forgiveness.

TL;DR, I don't mind 'change'. But an awful person, fictional or not, shouldn't be given the credit of 'redemption' until that actual effort and retribution is shown and given. Something that should be the *default*, like an apology or becoming a better person, *doesn't* make them prime material for "The message of redemption!". It harms it, and downplays redemption and their actions. Especially when these actions have victims with irreplaceable losses. Justice is necessary too, and consequences do exist for a reason, we just cant get too out of hand, which I agree on. Eternal punishment or immediate execution isn't necessary for someone who's defeated and willing to change, but it's really just not right to let them walk free or to even forgive them so easily, especially in the place of the victims who *cant* forgive them even if they wanted. I don't know, I guess I'm seeing too much villain glaze and justifications and defenses, and when you get attacked with downvotes and arguments to even dare think a villain should lose a limb or something, it makes you question whether you went insane, or the internet. And this comes from a lover of *many* villains, but..can we please recognize and not downplay their actions?

An Argument For One Of The Endings

I hate how nowadays media made a lot of people seem to think that every awful person in media should be redeemed or get a pat on the wrist. (TL;DR at the end)