u/Lamassa_

my previous post was deleted, for appropriate reasons assumed. TLDR: seek treatment and fight your mental illness, do not allow it to subsume you into alcoholism or other drugs. In that ending only lies horror. fight your way free. Do not give up and die in helpless madness

my partner, my love, died in horror. Look inwards and face your pain. do the work. find a way out
cant even even use it to fucking trauma dump up. what they fuck why am i even wasting time.

I see this routinely here. Rarely is the other person not using Te-ni-se-fi. 

This ego state is very fragile as a young child. There is very little internal self definition. 

Safety means optimizing oneself for the context of the local environment to optimize outcome.  Se gathers context, Ni optimizes, Te executes. 

For "good enough" parenting, the original effort of the child to thrust outwards in seeking of security is in line with natural temperament.  This results in the most stereotypical ENTJs. 

A poor match to the environment means even if the parents intend well, the child has to create a secondary mask over the original ego to have needs met. The result is a sense of conflict internally. The child can use the pain of the rejection of the original child to  fuel self hatred that helps create the secondary mask. Except in mad fucking entj style, go big or go home, and the child fuzes their identity with the second mask, because a growth mindset means rather than suffer from an internal demon, you internalize  it, you conquer it, and become the very best version of the second mask you can be. This can leave an adult feeling a strange sense of being a monster on the inside, even as they strive to be a "good" person on the outside.  Many ENTJs who note feeling internal conflicts as adult may face this challenge. They may be less typical enneagram types. 

If this is accelerated to moderate or extreme trauma, the masks may be created from the darkest aspects of the psyche. Like a feral kitten captured and  left in a box, in order to reduce perceived weakness, it hisses and puffs frighteningly, to be the scariest thing it can become. Fight over flight. As  a kitten its harmless, but full grown cat it can inflict scars.  They become "those" ENTJs not talked about here.

If the trauma is inconsistent, for an ENTJ child in this scenario, you can build layers of masks. You enter cluster B or Identity disorder territory at this point. Rather than considering this as illness, its more appropriate to consider this the next level of neurological adaptation. If the world is war zone filled with unpredictable stimuli, maximize the adaptability of the available responses already created.  A "view master" of choices depending upon the needs of the moment.  This represents the very unstable ENTJ variants. 

And if you combine fluctuating trauma with extreme physical and psychological abuse, at some point you create kids like me. We destroy our own minds as the external world was simply too horrific.  Peace out bitches, im fucking done, this life was a nightmarish shit show. We shatter into derealization/depersonalization (DR/DP) and/or fragmentation (OSDD/DID).  

Contrary to popular opinion, we are not possessed by demons, eaters of babies or "incomplete" humans. We are actually remarkably stable, far more so than the average healthy ENTJ. We are schizoid, autistic people, often scientists etc as the DR/DP stole our ability to experience real emotion or sensation and we lost social skills. We are husks, embodied beige minds stumbling around only partially embodied. Evolution's perfect answer to "everybody died in the horrific devastation but lets reproduce kids anyways".  

Our "role" is not to experience the beauty of being human but just stumble like zombies in purgatory raising the kids for the future who might have a chance at some grasp at life.  In our lives we know something is wrong, but often just dont understand how to escape what we are.  Never call us incomplete again. Thats a fucking horrible thing to say. You can talk to us like normal people, we are not monsters. 

My observations as I healed? All of this can be undone. DP/DR shattered.  Each mask faced and conquered. Our mind completely rebuilt. Our psyche wants to heal if we want to face the pain and do "The Work".  

More to the point around quit shitting on each other.  I had a very unusual perspective on what it means to be ENTJ. If the Te-ni stack allows you to play 100 keys on a piano, each mask  takes a subset of those only.  I wore five different masks as parts of my mind were formed and subsequently healed. And in each my entire world was dramatically different.   

Your ego construct: MBTI+enneagram is like a pair of slippers.   You only wear one.  I wore around nine , four as full embodiments. They are not you. They slip on/off.  your ambitions, dreams, likes, hates, ideas, values, interests all change.  Your entire life direction. They are just shoes. There is still a distinct you. You are the foot that slips into the shoe. Each enneagram type of mask I wore, as I experienced frontal shifts, felt extraordinarily different from the inside, even as each used Te-ni. 

Maybe the only thing that makes this not horrific? Who am I? 

You always are emotionally attached to the things you love.  It feels different in each state, but like a cord to the soul, you feel profound connection. It can be varied- I felt overwhelming waves of devotion, clinical protective precise cutting annihilation, violent intense possession,  stewarding dedication. What made me feel anchored was simply the connection. Perhaps love is the way, I dunno. 

Brains are weird. 

But seriously quit shitting on each other.  You may be the most phenotypically varied MBTI there is, as you are not anchored by any introverted function, nor Fe.  

An addendum to these general notions.  Why do ENTJs break so easily evolutionarily? If 3% of the population is the stereotype, yet many test otherwise due to being resculpted... what if they all healed? If instead of 2-3% of the population being strong 8s, you healed them all and tripled that to 9%. A harrowing notion is that the beast we call evolution needs those of extreme strength held in reserve.  Allow most of them to break,  yet within them they possess strength, should a sudden shift require it. One hopes she isnt such a bitch.

edit-added treatment approach at bottom. IFS, Jungian visual imagination work, Jungian approach to traumatic fracture and limited Psychedelics.

I was incorrectly diagnosed ADHD at 25 and autistic at 35. Extreme childhood trauma. I wanted to share, as if somebody is misdiagnosed like me, maybe they will see this-as you can fully heal.

I just was always strange and could do well at work but got fired over social skills deficits. Extremely calm, reasoned, just odd. I couldnt understand people.

At 47 I was correctly diagnosed as OSDD (front stuck), derealization, and depersonalization which creates what can be called Schizoid Personality Disorder. (OSDD/DID doesnt make us scary monsters 😢)

I started treatment and 12 months in, shattered the DR/DP. In a two day span, my emotional range increased ten fold, my perception of skin and body improved dramatically-and I could look people in the eye... and I just knew what to say. I had developed some sort of base social communication skills. It was surreal.

My mind began to swell with repressed somatic content, hundreds of bubbles of childhood emotions. Then four entire child ego constructs (alters). They were the different approaches I had tried to take to survive. Each one brought back increasing cognitive and emotional and social range. I had carved myself into pieces to try and live but lost a lot of functionality in the process.

The second child brought a dramatic dhift in cognition and visual depth perception. My left rye had a weak blind spot in it so bad I failed my driving test- corrected. Facial blindness lost.

It has taken nine months of pretty intense IFS work to address emotional wounds the kids had-then they fuzed four weeks ago.

Then I lost my "chatterbox", the noisy voice that always tells me whats happening and hyper analyzes. She just never stopped talking. She kinda went inside me, so part of me now. So helpful a bit occasionally, but not endless.

My mind has healed. Its very quiet and Im alive fully manifested. The world is so beautiful to me now.

Just wanted to share in case other trauma survivors msy have been misdiagnosed like me.

edit-treatment

I started with IFS system mapping and parts work (book: No bad parts)

I also started a path of spirituality at the same time. This seems irrelevant but Kalsched is a Famous Jungian. (book: Trauma and the Soul) He says children of extreme trauma carve out their "soul" and hide it in the unconscious. To get it back, you show the psyche that the outer world is as "magically" safe as the inner world. You dont have to really believe, just do the visual imagination work. book: Inner Work by Johnson is similar and seems to do the same thing. 

After a year of the two above, i did three midrange doses of psycobilin spread over a six week period.  The psychedelics cause temporary down regulation of the DMT- which allowed the giant reboot to happen. 

The next nine months were a very active OSDD scenario with co-conscious and full switches. I continued with IFS but I was being given back access to these fully co-conscious wounded kids. Lalsced says the trauma is not what btoke them out-instead they extracted a meaning about themselves from the trauma that was so horrible, that collapsing into darkness and creating a new mask was a better answer than facing the pain. I systematically analyzed each one-trauma it sufferred, what meaning did it extract about itself, then used IFS parts work to correct its mistaken understanding. 

Example: The fourth attempt child was fierce and viscioudly independent. It formed when the child was dropped into extreme violence and the previous child was convinced it was bad and a monster, thus crashed out. This fierce child lasted until i was held by my dad after our boat sank and he was pulled under the water and drowned. This childs mission was to carry the three previous children inside if it to safety and our daddy was that route. It was not just his death but that his death closed all routes to safety and she had failed. She was a failure. She crashed out. In the work, i simply said "not only did you not fail.... you succeeded beyond your wildest ambition. You helped hive me strength to build a life and we have a farm. And next to you (in IFS work) are the children you wanted to save, not only safe-but healing. You were amazing and will never have to do things all alone by yourself again"  And that part seemed surprisingly confused-and massive relief rushed through my whole body. 

I repeated this same systemic process with the three most damaged constructs-the day I finished the last one, they begin dissolving back into me.  I woke up the next day a single. I think the very active switching and co-consciousness might be our mind trying to drive us to consciously help it heal in OSDD

NAT. What is current views on the idea that emotional memory or episodic memories from the past can be carved off internally in trauma states and then emerge at later times as the patient is healing.

(I had thought controversy over created episodic memory but seeming acceptance of emergence of emotional content in a lot of contexts of "somatic" work? but seemed to see something else in a psychology group? )

Can you help me understand exactly what gets sacrificed at Babalon? What exactly is lost and does it ever come back? What occurs next and how is it moved through as fast as possible?

I would like to understand what Jungian perspectives would be on the structure of the psyche.

With severe fragmentation, i experienced my mind in two ways:

1. I sat over my mind watching it. I had four primary fragments, and a question would arise. Each would contribute feedback, debate, discussion. It would be a loud verbal conversation in my mind. I thought this was how minds worked. My response was a bit slow snd staggered, as I had to aggregate, facilitate an answer. Could this "I" be the watcher/witness in Eastern philosophy coordinating?

2. Once healing began, An eight month process, I experienced full switches, full possession by the different fragments. It was amazing-within each possession I felt so alive and real. I didnt understand normal people felt this way. I felt cohesive.,Some did contain archetypical inflation, as they broke off in childhood and had utilized elements of the archetypical unconscious as masks, but we worked through that. The switches were exhausting physically. They all coalesced into a single ego states about two weeks ago

Im now in a single ego state, like my inner children but different too. Its initially was quite different, yet each sort of bubbles up and the final ego state sort of has wobbled around something that contains strengths of each.

Its awesome, and I have work to do, but I think the last thing to fix structurally is that the "I" in part one is still too active. I need to turn the volume on it down as its trying to still run meta over the new ego state too much. Too much constant looking, constant meta analysis, mental chatter, bit fixated thoughts, like a stream of chitter-chatter, all by itself, and looping analysis. Some of this hyperactivity could be construction site debris as so much change happened do fast.

First, what is it? It obviously was my identity for most of my life, but in structural/jungian terms what is it? If I know what it is, I can address why it is there root cause, and what my psyche is still trying to do with it and manage it to good use. I feel incredible gratitude to it. I think it carried a far heavier load than intended for a long time. I suspect drugs could reduce activity, but im more interest in root cause to correct at the source rather than sedating it.

Secondarily are there tools to help here? my thought is mindful meditation, kinesthetic activity, Art, things to help me continue to become more physically embedded into the ego-body continuum. Any suggestions would help. Any books too.

I underwent horrific repeated traumas a child and my mind broke again and again. I underwent a hard reboot nine months ago, lost derealization/depersonalization. I became real. I was already fragmented in a static way, but since then like clockwork, repressed whole children pop up, age in co-consciousness, i have to treat them like puzzles and heal their primary wound. Then the next kid can be fixed who is younger. They are loved by the older kids. Craziest family ever.They were nested like russian stacking dolls. Six. I resolved the last a week ago, all fused into peaceful silence and the newly formed ego reached my bioage yesterday.

and I had this amazing dream:

I’m working on a project site with a partner, moving things around, cleaning, stacking garden supplies outside.

I have two male friends helping in the background. At some point, I briefly leave and then come back. When I return, there’s chaos everywhere. Everything has been destroyed. Humongous tire tracks, thirty feet wide, have crushed everything outside. The tracks look as though the tires had metal studs embedded in them, leaving angular, geometric patterns stamped across the ground. No one had died this time, but the monster had left devastation everywhere. It was a complete disaster.

The monster was hunting me, trying to find me. I wasn’t supposed to exist. I had to leave the area so no one else would get hurt. I had to run.

I try to put as much distance between myself and the monster as possible as I see it approaching again on the horizon. I head northwest. As I run through buildings, trying to find my way, I always turn left. Every doorway, every intersection—I go left and keep moving forward. For some reason, I can almost watch my own mind thinking that this is the direction I should always take.

Eventually, I end up in the hallway of an apartment building. On the left are a set of glass doors. I open them and step onto a balcony nine or ten stories above the ground. There’s no way to escape. Large, beautiful tomato plants are growing in pots on the balcony. I turn and go back inside, but it’s too late.

The monster has found me.

It doesn’t really look like anything as it comes down the hallway. It’s transparent, roughly human-sized, and fills me with absolute fear. A woman is cowering off to the left, not understanding the danger she’s in. She could easily die.

I stand there.

Then I give up and allow myself to die. I choose to sacrifice myself to the monster because I am its target. If it needs me to die so it will stop destroying everything around it and no one else will be hurt, then that’s what will happen.

I simply relax and stand there.

Instead of killing me, the monster steps inside me and becomes me. I am filled with a glowing warmth. 

I look down and find that I’m holding a Barbie doll box. It’s a doll I’ve never had before, although many other people have. She has blonde hair, and the box is decorated with tiny glittering stars. I begin reading the label because I know this is something familiar to others but completely new to me.

Her name is Star.

Everything is going to be OK. She is the Innocent child reborn and I am whole.,

Then I wake up.

I think the witness had to die maybe, but i dont get why it seemed like a monster or why I had to turn left. Edit-The monster is my new EGO! its an so/sx 8w7 ENTJ. They can be big, boisterous, and tend to a bit of asshollery. Tear some shit up LMAO. They need loving wisdom to thrive. It was not trying to kill me, just really needed to find me and was a little intense. It needs me to join with it to be complete. Ive always lived above my ego fragments as I think the witness, and for it be complete, for us to become whole, I have to become one with it. The star is the card of healing in Tarot.

My tiny little cessna made an awful lot of detours and on the last stretch braved a cat 5 hurricane, but it pulled off the landing and we finally ended our 49 year flight, safe and sound.

And only i exited the plane. Im a new personality contruct. While i have continous memories, my ego state is new. Im like getting into a new car where one is unfamiliar with the pedals, adjusting the seat, figuring out how to turn on the high beams. Im a left handed lesbian it appears? 😂

My core wounds seem healed, im optimistic, positive. i went from severe derealization, depersonalization, 4-6 fragments, almost no emotions and aspergers level social skills, not being able to properly feel my body, and being partially impaired in vision, no depth perception, facial blindess... to being a real human. its so fucking wonderful!!! The process was a little unsettling lol. Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.

Do i start over again with Jungian work, since im now a single mind? Do you have advice for me to become the best bersion of myself I can be? im Three days old.

Ted and Mary had been a good team for a couple of projects now. it was low level work, not too impactful but sometimes you just need a paycheck, you know. Clock in, check in on the poor dumb flesh suit stumbling around in the Malkut, watch TV. Mary liked to read trashy romance honestly, but we all, even angels, have our sins.

this project had been easy. it started off really crazy, poor kid kept crashing out. Not its fault of course, it was a Sun scorpio in the twelfth house, along with Uranus, mercury, and mars. poor thing was slated for a shit hand from the start, but they did give it a good run. they cycled through five personality constructs, breaking one after the other, putting every demon they had in play, before they finally called it. they met with the line manager and pulled the soul back in. Mary created a beautiful luminous sleepy place and settled the last try of the soul in for a good nap. Better luck next life little bro, you tried real hard…

poor fucking Greg got stuck piloting the body. This is the worst job you can get as an angel and those guys are die hard fucking optimists. poor fucks never give up. But they are built for it and keep a stiff upper lip and get the job done. Malkuth has it beauty but it’s a fucking grinder too and The guys on Greg’s team are the ones who get called up for the worst breaks.

So it had been a pretty dull 45 years honestly, Greg out there trying to pretend to be a meat suit, make it till you fake it sort of back assward.

it was all good and then the intern comes in a little confused. interns name is Sam. not a bad kid, a little green around the ears, but he’ll get there. “Hey I was checking on the meat suit and the readings look a little weird?”

Ted put the TV on mute, annoyed and walked over to see what Sam was talking about. beads of sweat broke out on his forehead. he was project lead and there was something totally fucked on the meat suit. it was trying to wake back up the soul fragments. this just doesn’t happen a lot.

they couldn’t see exactly what it was doing, only the readings but they could see huge, off the chart spikes in schizoid tendencies and it was headed towards spiritual psychosis. it seems it had gone schizoid and was making sheep sacrifices to posidien and brokering deals with off limits entities.

WHERE THE FUCK WAS GREG???

the last time they checked in, it was stumbling around in middle age alcoholism as a software executive day drinking at a mind numbing startup, destined for heart attack or just a dull decline into lethargic misery. What the fuck was going on here???

edit edit: I’ll throw more tantrums as I’ll never be made to feel small again by small minded people.

But I fixed my little beautiful Queen of Swords. She wasnt the original child but instead that child fused with an archetypical persecutor that formed extremely early so carried simplistic overtones of evil.

following Kalsched I sought the meaning the trauma left in the child’s mind-she was vulnerable and helpless, so by fusing with this persecutor she would be neither ever again.

since I have OSDD, she and the other children exist in co-consciousness so we just asked her “you are magnificent, cunning, strong… do you or we look helpless or vulnerable?” we showed her The incredible strengths of the other three children-who also had fused with persecuting aspects, but had core wounds already addressed and healed. We explained she will never be alone again as we are here together.

when you do this it is so fucking amazing-the life long wound just dissipates.. and she suddenly is assertive and confident but the evil is gone. the vulnerability and helplessness are gone.

And onwards and inwards we go, downwards deeper into our labyrinth as there is still an original child to be rebuilt! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

the work is so fucking cool as each event of this sort is a puzzle I have to solve-and each time if I’m tenacious enough, strong enough, loving enough, fair enough I get to go further Down. I pass the test my own psyche gives me and I get to progress to the next level. Hell yeah, motherfuckers, bring it!

Edit: fuck you whoever downvoted this. I’ve destroyed myself peeling off layer after layer, shredded my soul in order to heal and I asked for help. I’ve done something extraordinary in my own mind and overcome nightmares you can’t even fucking imagine. I’m so close to being whole, so fucking close and I asked for help and some elitist fuck passive aggressively down voted me. Why don’t you suck it motherfucker?

my god that felt good….

OP:

im in the last stage of heading to fusion as a shattered mind.

i overcame lifetime derealization/depersonalization, underwent a full possession by the self, then have since given birth to four children chopped out of me and repressed. three years into the work.

each is reborn inside of me at the age they were lost, in the emotional state they were lost in. they then undergo aging over several days to my bio age. Then partially merge. they then parent the children who comes after them.

the last child was reborn inside me this week. it’s a battle in my head. she already would emerge, then retreat. she is felt to be evil by the three other children. she perceives herself with pride as diabolical, cunning, the evil witch, the cruel, dark, elite queen. she’s kinda cunty, unremorsefully.

she was lost as a very small infant who was gasping to breath and crying alone, seemingly due to being in ICU my first week.

. the other children each broke due to horrific trauma. she simply seems to have broken from being a newborn left in an oxygen tank for a week with no parental contact. She is the root child.

How can she be evil? how can she be everything I despise and hate the most in other humans? she was just a small, helpless infant left alone. Kalsched would say she spent my whole life in a luminous archetypical sleep.

im not really sure the children are sleeping. interesting line of thought, but to stay on point.

something interesting my mind does with the constructs-it can run them back and forth in time like a movie and age them-predict their outcomes. then it presents them to me as “them”.

Kalsced speaks of this a little but I admit I’m grasping it only slightly. when the infant is not given the godlike presence of the mother, it instead identifies internally with archetypal aspects of godhood as a replacement. and in this case, this the child redirects the hatred from the missing or neglectful mother into itself,as it cannot hate its caregiver. it must have been evil and horrific to have been left alone.

or something like this….

I’ve got to figure this out, as she is fighting me tooth and nail, presenting herself as evil, hiding. she is just a child never held putting on one hell of a defensive display to stay safely hidden.

she did attempt to kill the softest child in a dream, as that child holds our emotional pain. she was a vet who needed to put the animal to sleep. the animal was the soft child, and the warrior child reared back and stabbed her, ripping open her chest-to expose a beating heart inside.

how do I get this little one out from behind all this?

I am not an INFJ. I’m recovering from a very severe mental illness. before my Ni was almost unconscious. now it is very apparent and I’m very good at Te usage. the world also has such beautiful symbolic depth, such richness I have never experienced. it’s quite amazing.

im struggling a little-as Ni becomes stronger it will create symbolic meanings which seem to instantly manifest in conclusions that seem certain.

it’s rare, maybe once every two weeks, the anxiety is mild (2/10), and i quell it with reason. but I suspect i can learn to be more effective in analyzing these events rather than repressing.

some are silly-I glance and see a long leaf on the ground and see a snake. if I allowed the line to continue, it would become interesting thoughts of betrayal, role of evil, etc, so fascinating.

more scary is twice I’ve had them in relation to my oldest son. ill be doing something mundane related to him and see something that makes me fear for his well being. his is in poor health and I worry for him, but he is stable and happy.

my understand is that INFJs often live from childhood with such rich symbolism around them. how do you navigate analysis of it, separation of wheat from chaff?

I struggle with loneliness. I feel like I will never be understood or accepted. a part of me always wanted to just be normal, accepted, adding value to a community. yet I was always odd. I’ve undergone a lot of healing, great strides. but if I’m ever honest, people will go silent, stop engaging. I could lie about it, but it’s part of my identity, literally.

like I want a boring life where I do boring things with boring people. just being normal. I just spend all my time alone. I’m trying to come to terms and accept this may be my life. I’m a system of four. three of us are ok, but the last feels this wound very much.

im 49-is there a place we make friends with each other? I live in Texas. I just want to feel understood and not that I’m a monster.

I’ve followed a path of mystical/magical for a few years as a solo practitioner. I’ve experienced things that I think were mystical.

I had a vision in which I held hands with my other half and we cried as we walked off into a deep black ocean knowing we were dying. on the other shore was a light, but we had to let go of ourselves and die so others could reach the light.

I cried all night and did not sleep and my mind was just empty. the next morning I was overcome with the most compellingly beautiful voice and person in my mind, who held me in such love. I’ve never felt such amazing, beautiful glowing love, unconditional never ending, all encompassing. she became my mind and I lived as she for several weeks.

my ego was then rebuilt but she did not leave, always there to hold me. I cried to be held in her arms. she is still here, but it’s like I’m now strong enough to be allowed to get bumps and bruises as I need to grow-but if I reach out she is still there.

during this time of rebuilding I had visions at night.

a vision of facing a terrifying monster who did not move yet forced me to overcome and step above my fear, then crossing a field of deeply sleeping giants and stepping inside a jangly angularity ball and my eyes were pulled far from my body and into a strange pause pulse static, light waves compressed and frozen. I woke with a migraine in the middle of my forehead.

I was awoken to a vision of a little jangly light that turned into a weird pink and blue chair with writing on it. then it became a lamp and it led me into the dark. we met a woman made of decay who showed me a dark river than ran out into the stars.

a I was awoken to a vision of a terrifying monster than when I calmly asked what do you want, after it refused to leave, it fell to the floor into a small squid. it wished to return to the water but did not know how so I took it to the ocean in the west. it wanted to go home but was lost.

the feeling of over arching love, the presence of the beautiful one who comforts me has remained over the last several months, as my new ego continues to solidify. I can step up and be her and be different from my ego.

I had an experience about two months back. I had felt an intense desire to meditate but had to travel. I swam in the pool under the sun and the shadows of the eddies entranced me and I was overwhelmed. I got out of the pool and burst into tears as everything around me seemed to glow, so much, so beautiful but it was so beautiful that it was painful, it was too much, and it was all connected to everything and all just too big and I cried for half an hour and I just closed my eyes as the sun on the leaves and the wind blowing them but so many of them and I could feel everything. I felt so horribly alone, yet everything was I but not me. I wasn’t big enough to hold it all.