u/MrChainsawHog

-while retroactively mischaracterizing pt1 dennis and claiming pt2 is flanderization

Obligatory mention that pt2 is flawed (though we probably disagree on what those flaws are), and this is not a "defense" of the ending (i think it does matter but we can argue later)

Denji struggles to maintain happiness without being Chainsaw man, and Chainsaw mans existence brings hell. The usual rebuttal to Pochita's "...only find heaven when you're in hell" claim is any panel with Denji looking content or happy, hanging around Aki, Power, Reze, or Asa but that surface level observation is ignoring the fact that just being with them isn't (inherently) at odds with his dreams or wanting to be Chainsaw man.
The tragedy is, if he was told to stop being Chainsaw man to be with them (before his "I want to be chainsaw man...!" moment at the end) he could've probably attempted to move past needing Chainsaw man; Unfortunately with everyone wanting his heart, and his own desires, this likely wouldn't've lasted.
He is forced to be Chainsaw man due to his circumstances, getting to chase his dreams of sex and fame, and the thrill of violence ultimately outweighs any notion of family- even one with Nayuta- or properly confronting his guilt.

"I would probably be depressed for a bit, but after three days or so i'd probably be back to enjoying my life"

"And if they die too! I'll find another new family!" Tough luck bad guys! I Can make a perpetual motion machine!"

"...Which side is heavier"

"Somebody like me shouldn't be allowed to be happy!!"

Denji's entire life is built on unfair circumstances, and having to pick between two choices is just another facet of that. This is a deliberate writing choice, there is no "correct" answer.
These bad circumstances lead to bad choices and bad outcomes, whether this makes Denji a 'bad' person or not is really up to your own ability to sympathize with him, even at his lowest and most selfish moments.
But for better or worse he'll pick a third option, he'll always get back up, even in the face of guilt or loss he can always fall back on the high of chasing his dream of having tons of sex while he gets to carve up bad guys. The only way for someone in Denji's shoes to move past this, was to have never had it at all. This is not a moral to be taught or a nihilistic world view, this is a story about a character.

(or fujimoto couldve just decided hed get better because thats whats supposed to happen to the hero at the end duh)

I can understand Denji not being able to grow is frustrating (and the release schedule didn't help) but that's what the entirety of part 2 was telling us- even with his moments of clarity, guilt, maturity, or suffering and at the end of the world, he couldn't break from his vices- but even if he could it would probably be too late.

obviously its fine if you dont like it and "it being the point doesnt automatically make it good" but disliking Sisyphus for rolling his boulder or disliking a tragedy for being tragic isnt really a "valid criticism" i dont think

thanks for reading maybe

Personally I'm interested in seeing how the Kris jealously plot will be handled, since it's fairly evident that Kris is interested in Susie and feels bad about how close Susie and Noelle are getting.

At the same time, I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of exploration Kris had this chapter.

Consider this: Dark worlds reflect the one who made them, right? We see this in chapter 4, with Susie's church dark world being super different and Gerson being changed because Susie knows he's dead now. So, we have Kris make a dark world in his dad's flower shop (Which Kris obviously has a strong connection to), and in this dark world
-Everyone is dedicated to keeping Asgore away from his family, notably away from Kris, to try and make Asgore happy
-The flowers that get anthropomorphised all view themselves as "human." That's strange, right? I mean, being "human" is not the norm, being a "monster" is, so why don't they view themselves as "monsters?" Yes, obviously it's an allusion to undertale, but Allusions still need to make sense WITHIN THE STORY.
-Flowery himself also has a really weird interaction with Kris. Notably, when Flowery says"you know how I feel about you"

That comes off as very forbidding. It honestly makes it look like Flowery has some sort of vendetta or resentment towards Kris. Since this is Kris' dark world, this has to be a manifestation of Kris' subconscious in some capacity.

So, to summarise: Kris is the one who made the dark world. Dark Worlds are the manifestation of one's subconscious, and the dark world Kris created for his dad was one where
-Everyone is trying to keep Kris away from their dad.
-The flowers want to be human.
-Flowery seems to resent Kris.
And from what we know about Kris, they have a lot of guilt, self-hatred, and want to be a monster (not a human).

So I'm thinking "oh ok, so all of this is set up for something to do with Kris psychologically. Maybe Kris hates himself and sees himself as unworthy of being in his family, or maybe Kris resents Toriel for leaving Asgore, or maybe Kris blames himself (cuz he's implicated with Dess' disappearance in some way), or maybe Kris wishes there were more humans around him, or anything."
And did it mean anything? NOPE! WE GET FUCK ALL.
We have all this weird set up shit and it means precisely dick. What the fuck was the point of any of that? Why have all that weird shit if it meant nothing? THIS IS ASGORE'S CHAPTER, Why didn't we EXPLORE HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRIS A BIT MORE, MAYBE?

I understand that Maybe Toby wanted to save exploring more of Kris' pscyhe for the last two chapters...but even if we can't have any explanation yet, you can still save it for later whilst bringing attention to Kri's psychology. We don't need an explanation for it yet, but there should have been something more with the flower humans thing. Make Flowery have some consistent unique/weird relationship with Kris, just something.

Like Chapter 2 expanded on Kris' psychology without revealing too much through Spamton, with Spamton reflecting Kris' own fears about the soul and his role or whatever. Why couldn't this chapter do the same? Idk.

Like I don't see why this chapter couldn't have explored some of this stuff. Even if it gets explored in a very interesting manner later, why not now anyway?

So overall I wish Kris had more to 'em this chapter but I'd like to hear other thoughts.

Nayuta weaknesses:
-known weakness to beheading

Japanese soldier strength
-Known propensity to beheading Chinese heads

idk gang I think the Japanese guy might win

Counter arguments:
-Anytime Makima/Yoru heals, infinite spin will just re-apply itself. Even if they could theoretically heal from it, they'll continue taking damage so it doesn't matter
-Infinite spin will spin until you are erased. However, even though they can't be erased, when they regenerate, Infinite spin will still be on their bodies

Supporting argument:
-Makima/Yoru's contract can only be overpowered by a continuous physical source off damage, like the blood saw or the locust devil's attacks. However, Yoru/Makima can still heal from status effects (Makima not being effected by alcohol poisoning) and even stuff that specifically negates regen (nuke punch not stopping Yoru's regen but stopping Pochita's). Infinite spin is not a physical object repeatedly applying an effect, instead it is a status effect applied to Makima/Yoru, therefore it will be redirected to someone else and healed.
-Infinite spin will eventually destroy Makima/Yoru, and the spin will be gone. They will then heal and be back to normal.

Makima why did you survive a fall from a few hundred meters? Didn't you know that any indirect side effect from an attack immediately kills you? are you stupid?

-Unless the translation is off, the "no loss in output or range" seems to heavily imply that Shrine is at it's full output
-The fact UV's barrier lasts the same amount of time also indicates the output is the same
-THOUGH, it is possible (given the 3rd slide) that Sukuna's output was worse and Yuta just got very lucky and his weakened UV matched up exactly like Sukuna did with Gojo, but it seems equally likely that Yuta is just referring to refinement which is distinct from output

Anyway so Sukuna's MS is arguably at it's full output, though there is a reasonable argument to be made that it's at somewhat lower output.

-Yuji AND Choso were able to survive a lot of cleaves from MS, notably ones TO THE FACE
-We know these were MS cleaves cuz Choso had no scars on his face before this

So from this I see two options,

1. Sukuna's output decreased so much that he went from being able to donut Choso with his bare hands, and one shot Yuji with a cleave, to MS "amped" cleaves being unable to kill Choso
   or
2. MS cleaves are weaker than Sukuna's normal cleaves. The justification for this is that MS cleaves are a sure hit and hit 50 billion times, so they can afford to be a wee bit weaker

I think it's hard to confirm either one because we don't get to see how strong Sukuna's dismantles or cleaves are after 7 black flashes, other than the dismantles he used on Ino who has grade 1 or sub grade 1 stats, which doesn't mean too much then.

Thoughts?

Both Yuji and Nanami were right next to him, so it's not like he made the barrier small enough to encompass just Nanami, plus we also see the barrier pushing Yuji away so that doesn't make sense.

It's not that "oh he could push Yuji out but he knew Yuji would break in faster than 0.2 seconds and fuck him over," because he said he COULDN'T exclude Yuji, not that it would be a bad idea.

Is this an inconsistency or is there another explanation? Did Mahito perhaps mean SELECTIVE TARGETING instead of excluding from a domain?

Disclaimer: This analysis focuses exclusively on the Japanese context. While some of these characters (Kanji) are shared between Chinese and Japanese, their meanings and nuances here are strictly based on Japanese language and culture.

Image 1:
Japanese: だが… このままお国に任せて育てさせたら またマキマみたいになっちまうだろうな: ‘’Daga... kono mama okuni ni makasete sodatesasetara mata Makima mitai ni nacchimau darou na’’

(Okuni / お国 ) Blue: "国" means "Country-State-Government"

(Makasete - 任せて) Red: “任”--The Kanji base for the verb “Makaseru” [任せる]” means "Entrusting-Responsibility-To leave to someone"

(Sodatesasetara - 育てさせたら) Orange: “育” The Kanji base for the verb “Sodateru” [育てる] means “Education-Raising/Childcare-Nurturing-Growth”

Image 2:
Japanese: みんな恐いんだもん: ‘’Minna kowai n da mon’’ which translates to “They're all scary.” it shows at the end is the "だもん" (da mon) at the end.

The particle 'だもん/da mon' or 'もん/mon' is typically used by young children, conveying a childish or pleading nuance typically associated with making excuses or complaining.

So, the way Makima is talking is the kind of whiny, defensive tone used when making excuses or complaining, sounding more like something a sulking little girl would say.

On internet forums, native Japanese readers express their opinions about Makima. I’ve translated them and provided the necessary context.

Image 3
There are two ways of interpretation

1 - She was pretending and acting: 'azatoi' (あざとい) means intentionally manipulating through words and actions using calculated cunning and deceit.(Probably according to her character)

2-She was being honest and completely herself: 'Su ni modoru' (素に戻る) means being genuine, not trying to act in a certain way, and simply showing a natural behavior in that moment. It is worth noting that Makima almost never speaks this way. (This occurs only in highly specific situations like those, contrasting completely with her usual tone and remaining an unusual, out-of-character speech pattern.)

If you ask me, I'd think that Makima was perhaps, or probably, raised by the government (tbh idk)

Despite how well-written Makima is, it seems we will never know her exact origin

Since the Control Devil isn't a Primal Fear, it is subject to the reincarnation cycle. Therefore, if Nayuta started out as a child, it implies that Makima must have been one at some point too.

I guess Fujimoto likes ambiguity, since he doesn't explicitly confirm that Makima was raised by the government, but at the same time, he doesn't deny it either.

If falling was an avatar, Death wouldn't have turned the avatar into a pawn.

-Pochita doesn't have eyes. The helmet design they used just seems like it was directly ripped off the Denji Model, though the back of the helmet was still relatively accurate with the horns so thats good

-The DenjiMan model is also pretty inaccurate too. DenjiMan only has the orange/red bits on the top half of his body, but DB gave him it all over his legs and lower body

It's kind of weird though because they got the head shape really well done, so I don't see why they didn't just add that head shape to the Pochita model instead of using the hybrid one for it.

I think this stuff just didn't get brought up because people were too busy bitching and moaning about Yuji losing to notice this.

It's not a big deal but I wish they used more accurate models.

-The insect/animal devils get all the benefits from a death-less world, but the verse they're in is otherwise unaffected
-They're all just swarming a verse and killing shit I guess

What verses survive

SD prevents the surehit of MS from hitting the targets, so maybe Sukuna purposefully altered the effect it had on the ground to (somehow) fling rocks to try and knock around the sorcerers

either that or it just takes really long to destroy rocks

Here's the form link

I was just considering this feat again, and something notable about it is the calcs that scale this feat use pretty low-end speeds for Pochita

For instance, to get this feat to 2.8c, Pochita only has to be swinging at normal human speeds https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GunshyFever/Yoru%27s_Weaponization_Speed_(Re-calc)

And to get to 84c, Pochita only has to be swinging at mach 1.1, aka slower than Quanxi by a significant amount, slower than Gun by a massive amount, and basically nothing compared to Pochita's full speed
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Yoru_weaponification_speed

So both are these assumed speeds for Pochita are very slow for CSM scaling,However I think it's unlikely Pochita was moving at full speed, since

1. Pochita can't kill Asa/Yoru now without fucking over Denji,
2. he intentionally avoided killing Yoru earlier when he didn't chop off her head despite having the chance,
3. He's still fast enough to blitz this Yoru easily,
4. he fucks off after this despite being significantly faster than her, showing that he's not interested in killing her, and
5. he benefits from Yoru getting stronger from summoning tank/gun, so aging can send her to the dimension with Denji
6. Pochita was able to outspeed a stronger Yoru's weaponisation two times later; against both Morray and Death, which he stopped mid weaponisation, so it doesn't make sense for him to going full speed. Plus, yoru's weaponisation capabilities scale to her strength (her hax improves as she gets stronger), so this weaponisation could easily be faster than even tank/gun gauntlets summoning. Also, moon spear should reasonably upscale from tank/gun gauntlets summoning too since it's supposed to be one of her fastest attacks, and she uses it in an attempt to catch a DenjiMan who should already be above her weaponisation speed. So yeah he should scale to weaponisation

So if Pochita isn't going full speed, how fast was he going?

I think the only metric we can use is that it seems like Yoru would have been unable to dodge the Chainsaw so she was forced to summon gun/tank. This gives us a pretty good idea, since Yoru is able to
-Temporarily match Quanxi in a clash (Quanxi's speed scaling can go from like mach 6-35 from feats, and higher from chain-scaling)
-Blitz Yoshida accidentally (Frankly this would paint her as superior to Quanxi given Quanxi and Yoshida went H2H, so maybe you could argue it wasn't a blitz but more of a surprise to Yoshida)

Both feats can pretty comfortably get Yoru in the decently high mach ranges. So if Yoru's speed is in the like mach 10+ levels, and if Pochita was moving at those speeds, the calc can reach like 800c+

Now do I buy that characters in CSM scale to 800c? No lol. It doesn't contradict the story but I don't think theres enough evidence or consistency to buy it, because individual calcs don't account for authorial intent.

However I've seen wank calcs for other series that use worse logic (I.E wanking MHA to mach 300c) so I think this is a fair counter-argument against those.

For the sake of argument lets say Hellen Keller upscales from Mike Tyson's physicals.