The top/bottom controversy and the feminization of Will

Idk how controversial it actually is, but on twitter it definitely is. Which doesn’t actually say much cause on twitter saying you enjoy going outside on a sunny day can become controversial.

But I find that the fandom in general doesn’t view top/bottom as a sexual preference, but a role in a dynamic.

Mike is more dominant and masculine, so he’s the top, and Will is more submissive and feminine, so he’s the bottom.

Which, sure that can be one dynamic, but whether you like getting fucked or not doesn’t actually say anything about your personality. It’s what you like during sex.

Many are more dominant in their everyday life but submissive in bed, and many are more submissive but dominant in bed.

To add on to that, being a top or bottom does not equal whether you are dominant or submissive respectively. Someone can bottom and be dominant.

Again, someone is not a bottom cause they are submissive, they are a bottom cause they like getting fucked. Of course they can also be submissive, but that’s not a certainty in any way.

People can also switch, both in submissive/dominant dynamics (not to mention it doesn’t have to ever be a clear cut dominant/submissive dynamic for some) and top/bottom dynamics.

However, for many acting like Will would be a top and Mike a bottom is horrible, and many I have seen cite their canon personalities as reason. Which sure, that might be a factor for some, but for others it’s the complete opposite and for some everything in between.

Overall I can’t shake the feeling that many have decided that Will is a bottom cause they can’t imagine that someone’s preference isn’t reflective to who they are as a person.

Furthermore, I also think has a lot to do with people making Will a lot more feminine than he is. Sure he was an artsy kid, shy and sensitive, which is more so traits people judge as weak and gay, and therefore feminine

Overall, Will is not that feminine. Yet in many fics he is, and in general I feel like he often gets excluded from the core four because of that. His closest friends have always been Mike, Lucas and Dustin, but in large number of AUs, they are a separate friendgroup with Mike, Lucas and Dustin, and Will, El Max.

There are also a lot of mentions of things like “girl time” and similar, which is fine, but again I can’t shake the feeling that they think Will’s sexuality means he would be more feminine, would only hang around girls, and in general kinda filling the “gay best friend” stereotype

So to conclude, I feel like many have an inability too look past their preconceived notions about gay sex (perhaps sex in general), and therefore think that the one bottoming has to be the more submissive and feminine (which is a belief that in general comes from it being women who are seen as weak and submissive I think). Also, the overall feeling that a man being gay equals him being feminine.

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 2 days ago

House of The Dragon can’t write women

My main reason:

Women aren't capable. At least, not capable of anything that isn’t being inconsistent, blaming stuff on others, and being the face of Victorian feminists (women are too pure)

In season 2, Aemond told Alicent to return to her domestic pursuits after she wasn’t picked as regent by the council, which I felt was supposed to show Aemond as bad - but three days later Alicent gave her side over to the blacks. Not to mention the fact that she had not made a single good political decision the entire season, including letting the other claimant go when she showed up dressed like a nun, which could have won them the war. They had to add that 'domestic' part in so if would feel like Aemond was bad, when he was compleatly right.

Not to mention, he was literally in line before her to be regent. The scene acted like the council picked him cause he was a man, when the leading reasons would actually be:

• He’s before her in line

• He’s actually educated on war politics

• Alicent would have helped her cause more if she had been in a coma

Even in season 1, by episode 7, her fears have been confirmed and she has realized she must really play the game, and this is after years of telling Aegon he is the challenge by simply existing.

Then in the next episode she’s toasting to Rhaenyra being a good Queen, and only crowns Aegon cause she misunderstood Viserys and had no idea the council had planned for Aegon to he king. In season 3 she is apparently going to blame it on her father, when he wasn’t even in the damn city for most of Aegon’s life.

Literally pulled her ambition last minute because reasons.

And her selling out her entire family in the end, and the writers acting like it was some kind of redemption. She had Aegon dragged to the throne kicking and screaming, literally kicking and screaming. Then when he is bedbound, she fast travels to Dragonstone and gives up his life so she can flee with Helaena and Jaehaera, when there was no reason for her to do that except to get Rhaenyra’s forgiveness or something.

Also stuff like removing her from Blood & Cheese, which if you aren’t a book reader:

Blood and Cheese broke into her chamber, gagged her and tied her up, waited for Helaena and the children (in the book Jaehaera, Jaehaerys and Maelor) and when they came they killed the guards and forced Helaena to choose which child would die, to which she offered up her own life. Since that wasn’t a son, they told her to pick or they would kill them both, and rape Jaehaera. She picked Maelor because he was too young to understand, too which Cheese taunted the toddler by saying his mama wanted him dead before Blood struck Jaehaerys’ head clean off.

This was not only a very relevant moment in Helaena’s story, which has basically been removed since they didn’t bother to include one of the kids and didn’t actually care to have her go mad with grief, or grieve much at all.

But all of this was witnessed by Alicent, and would be a point in her story as well. She would take care of the children, and would demand Blood’s real name so she could find and bathe in the blood of his family.

In the show she is fucking Criston (cause of course she has to be a hypocrite I guess), there are no guards, she barley cares Jaehaerys is dead and doesn’t even bring him up when Rhaenyra asks for a son for a son.

Like Alicent can’t even be rageful and violent after witnessing her grandson be butchered, and apparently not witnessing it at all cause it was more important to have her be a hypocrite than a victim

Rhaenyra again, doesn't do much during season 2. At all. She goes to Kings Landing to make peace with Alicent (who has no power) after blood had been spilt on both sides. Like the person sitting the throne believes her responsible for the death of his son and Rhaenyra is just "Well peace". Not to mention that all her ambiton has to do with TPTWP and not just her wanting the throne. She has to have some honorable reason for it. She can't just want for things.

Even in season 1, she ended episode 7 with a whole ass monologue about how she wanted her enemies to fear her, and did so by having it look like she had her husband killed so she could bang her uncle. Next episode she’s by Viserys talking about how she never wanted it, and then completely bamboozled when Aegon takes the throne, partly due to them fearing her, when that was what she wanted an hour ago.

Not to mention it makes no sense to come there and ask for peace (ex Rhaenyra getting the throne) by offering nothing. Really showing up there styled like she’s gonna be an extra in Sound of Music and wants what the other side already has, and gives no reason why it should be so, except that her daddy said she could play dictator

Her council is constantly shown as sexist, while making valid points again and again. Maybe they will come back to it as karma to Rhaenyra, but at this point I doubt it. She did something with the dragonseeds, before deciding that peace is still best. Now in season 3, there has started to be some hints that she’s gonna be ruthless, but it seems like she’s gonna cheer the smallfolk on.

I will also say that there more then likely were sexist people on her council, but with the way she was acting the only thing that would happen would them being proven right in their thinking that women are too pure, can’t rule and don’t understand politics or war.

Rhaenys was declined the position of Queen in favor of Viserys, sucks. But her entire plot in the beginning was how she had come to terms with it and was more bothered by Corlys' endless ambition (again, she can't just want for it). Then she is suddenly all about crowning Rhaenyra (which fine), even though she believes she ordered the death of Laenor and was offered bethrotals that she herself said reeked of desperation. She is then suddenly all about Rhaenyra as Queen (because she apparantly can't be on a side for her own political ambition, like her grandaughter), all about Jaehaerys (I guess that is still peepaw) and is all about peace and the ones respondible (she commited mass murder of innocents two days ago) for the war is the men.

Even though, you know, the team black could have agreed to the peace terms because Aegon won the game of 'You snooze, you lose' when it came to being crowned. I am not saying that they should have given up on their cause, but why the fuck are they talking about peace when they refused it in the first place.

Mysaria the Humanitarian (do I need to say more). She actually had some character development, but still, is for the smallfolk.

Also, why must every women either be for Rhaenyra, or be shown as bad for not being for her. Like this is the battle of dictators, not gods chosen ruler.

That is not even point out how it feels like characters like Helaena (Bran 2.0), Baela and Rhaena have as much charachter development (and relevancy) as the Crabfeeder.

I guess Rhaena has gotten something with Sheepstealer, as they merged her with Nettles, who was a bastard without apparent Valyrian heritage who claimed a dragon, and her entire existence is important to show Rhaenyra’s paranoia and cruelty later, and also a comment on how their blood might not make them all that special and classism in general.

Which was merged with a trueborn lady whose only hardship in life seems to be that she didn’t have a dragon, cause up until she got a dragon, that was 99% of what she was on about.

Baela is a Rhaenyra supporter. Change her name and I probably wouldn’t be able to understand that who she was having read the book.

This is not me saying that women has to want the throne, or be politically good or whatever. But to constantly show them as not capable of those things is just iffy to me.

What makes it worse for me is that I truly believe it is unintended. When consuming media in general, it feels like I can tell pretty well when the a certain thing is made by misogynistics, because they have a certain way to describe women. These writers come from the desire to be feminist, and turns every women incapable, which leads me to believe that that is how they view women. It honeslty makes me a bit angry.

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 2 days ago

House of The Dragon can’t write women

My main reason:

Women aren't capable. At least, not capable of anything that isn’t being inconsistent, blaming stuff on others, and being the face of Victorian feminists (women are too pure)

In season 2, Aemond told Alicent to return to her domestic pursuits after she wasn’t picked as regent by the council, which I felt was supposed to show Aemond as bad - but three days later Alicent gave her side over to the blacks. Not to mention the fact that she had not made a single good political decision the entire season, including letting the other claimant go when she showed up dressed like a nun, which could have won them the war. They had to add that 'domestic' part in so if would feel like Aemond was bad, when he was compleatly right.

Not to mention, he was literally in line before her to be regent. The scene acted like the council picked him cause he was a man, when the leading reasons would actually be:

• He’s before her in line

• He’s actually educated on war politics

• Alicent would have helped her cause more if she had been in a coma

Even in season 1, by episode 7, her fears have been confirmed and she has realized she must really play the game, and this is after years of telling Aegon he is the challenge by simply existing.

Then in the next episode she’s toasting to Rhaenyra being a good Queen, and only crowns Aegon cause she misunderstood Viserys and had no idea the council had planned for Aegon to he king. In season 3 she is apparently going to blame it on her father, when he wasn’t even in the damn city for most of Aegon’s life.

Literally pulled her ambition last minute because reasons.

And her selling out her entire family in the end, and the writers acting like it was some kind of redemption. She had Aegon dragged to the throne kicking and screaming, literally kicking and screaming. Then when he is bedbound, she fast travels to Dragonstone and gives up his life so she can flee with Helaena and Jaehaera, when there was no reason for her to do that except to get Rhaenyra’s forgiveness or something.

Also stuff like removing her from Blood & Cheese, which if you aren’t a book reader:

Blood and Cheese broke into her chamber, gagged her and tied her up, waited for Helaena and the children (in the book Jaehaera, Jaehaerys and Maelor) and when they came they killed the guards and forced Helaena to choose which child would die, to which she offered up her own life. Since that wasn’t a son, they told her to pick or they would kill them both, and rape Jaehaera. She picked Maelor because he was too young to understand, too which Cheese taunted the toddler by saying his mama wanted him dead before Blood struck Jaehaerys’ head clean off.

This was not only a very relevant moment in Helaena’s story, which has basically been removed since they didn’t bother to include one of the kids and didn’t actually care to have her go mad with grief, or grieve much at all.

But all of this was witnessed by Alicent, and would be a point in her story as well. She would take care of the children, and would demand Blood’s real name so she could find and bathe in the blood of his family.

In the show she is fucking Criston (cause of course she has to be a hypocrite I guess), there are no guards, she barley cares Jaehaerys is dead and doesn’t even bring him up when Rhaenyra asks for a son for a son.

Like Alicent can’t even be rageful and violent after witnessing her grandson be butchered, and apparently not witnessing it at all cause it was more important to have her be a hypocrite than a victim

Rhaenyra again, doesn't do much during season 2. At all. She goes to Kings Landing to make peace with Alicent (who has no power) after blood had been spilt on both sides. Like the person sitting the throne believes her responsible for the death of his son and Rhaenyra is just "Well peace". Not to mention that all her ambiton has to do with TPTWP and not just her wanting the throne. She has to have some honorable reason for it. She can't just want for things.

Even in season 1, she ended episode 7 with a whole ass monologue about how she wanted her enemies to fear her, and did so by having it look like she had her husband killed so she could bang her uncle. Next episode she’s by Viserys talking about how she never wanted it, and then completely bamboozled when Aegon takes the throne, partly due to them fearing her, when that was what she wanted an hour ago.

Not to mention it makes no sense to come there and ask for peace (ex Rhaenyra getting the throne) by offering nothing. Really showing up there styled like she’s gonna be an extra in Sound of Music and wants what the other side already has, and gives no reason why it should be so, except that her daddy said she could play dictator

Her council is constantly shown as sexist, while making valid points again and again. Maybe they will come back to it as karma to Rhaenyra, but at this point I doubt it. She did something with the dragonseeds, before deciding that peace is still best. Now in season 3, there has started to be some hints that she’s gonna be ruthless, but it seems like she’s gonna cheer the smallfolk on.

I will also say that there more then likely were sexist people on her council, but with the way she was acting the only thing that would happen would them being proven right in their thinking that women are too pure, can’t rule and don’t understand politics or war.

Rhaenys was declined the position of Queen in favor of Viserys, sucks. But her entire plot in the beginning was how she had come to terms with it and was more bothered by Corlys' endless ambition (again, she can't just want for it). Then she is suddenly all about crowning Rhaenyra (which fine), even though she believes she ordered the death of Laenor and was offered bethrotals that she herself said reeked of desperation. She is then suddenly all about Rhaenyra as Queen (because she apparantly can't be on a side for her own political ambition, like her grandaughter), all about Jaehaerys (I guess that is still peepaw) and is all about peace and the ones respondible (she commited mass murder of innocents two days ago) for the war is the men.

Even though, you know, the team black could have agreed to the peace terms because Aegon won the game of 'You snooze, you lose' when it came to being crowned. I am not saying that they should have given up on their cause, but why the fuck are they talking about peace when they refused it in the first place.

Mysaria the Humanitarian (do I need to say more). She actually had some character development, but still, is for the smallfolk.

Also, why must every women either be for Rhaenyra, or be shown as bad for not being for her. Like this is the battle of dictators, not gods chosen ruler.

That is not even point out how it feels like characters like Helaena (Bran 2.0), Baela and Rhaena have as much charachter development (and relevancy) as the Crabfeeder.

I guess Rhaena has gotten something with Sheepstealer, as they merged her with Nettles, who was a bastard without apparent Valyrian heritage who claimed a dragon, and her entire existence is important to show Rhaenyra’s paranoia and cruelty later, and also a comment on how their blood might not make them all that special and classism in general.

Which was merged with a trueborn lady whose only hardship in life seems to be that she didn’t have a dragon, cause up until she got a dragon, that was 99% of what she was on about.

Baela is a Rhaenyra supporter. Change her name and I probably wouldn’t be able to understand that who she was having read the book.

This is not me saying that women has to want the throne, or be politically good or whatever. But to constantly show them as not capable of those things is just iffy to me.

What makes it worse for me is that I truly believe it is unintended. When consuming media in general, it feels like I can tell pretty well when the a certain thing is made by misogynistics, because they have a certain way to describe women. These writers come from the desire to be feminist, and turns every women incapable, which leads me to believe that that is how they view women. It honeslty makes me a bit angry.

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 3 days ago

House of The Dragon can’t write women

My main reason:

Women aren't capable. At least, not capable of anything that isn’t being inconsistent, blaming stuff on others, and being the face of Victorian feminists (women are too pure)

In season 2, Aemond told Alicent to return to her domestic pursuits after she wasn’t picked as regent by the council, which I felt was supposed to show Aemond as bad - but three days later Alicent gave her side over to the blacks. Not to mention the fact that she had not made a single good political decision the entire season, including letting the other claimant go when she showed up dressed like a nun, which could have won them the war. They had to add that 'domestic' part in so if would feel like Aemond was bad, when he was compleatly right.

Not to mention, he was literally in line before her to be regent. The scene acted like the council picked him cause he was a man, when the leading reasons would actually be:

• He’s before her in line

• He’s actually educated on war politics

• Alicent would have helped her cause more if she had been in a coma

Even in season 1, by episode 7, her fears have been confirmed and she has realized she must really play the game, and this is after years of telling Aegon he is the challenge by simply existing.

Then in the next episode she’s toasting to Rhaenyra being a good Queen, and only crowns Aegon cause she misunderstood Viserys and had no idea the council had planned for Aegon to he king. In season 3 she is apparently going to blame it on her father, when he wasn’t even in the damn city for most of Aegon’s life.

Literally pulled her ambition last minute because reasons.

And her selling out her entire family in the end, and the writers acting like it was some kind of redemption. She had Aegon dragged to the throne kicking and screaming, literally kicking and screaming. Then when he is bedbound, she fast travels to Dragonstone and gives up his life so she can flee with Helaena and Jaehaera, when there was no reason for her to do that except to get Rhaenyra’s forgiveness or something.

Also stuff like removing her from Blood & Cheese, which if you aren’t a book reader:

Blood and Cheese broke into her chamber, gagged her and tied her up, waited for Helaena and the children (in the book Jaehaera, Jaehaerys and Maelor) and when they came they killed the guards and forced Helaena to choose which child would die, to which she offered up her own life. Since that wasn’t a son, they told her to pick or they would kill them both, and rape Jaehaera. She picked Maelor because he was too young to understand, too which Cheese taunted the toddler by saying his mama wanted him dead before Blood struck Jaehaerys’ head clean off.

This was not only a very relevant moment in Helaena’s story, which has basically been removed since they didn’t bother to include one of the kids and didn’t actually care to have her go mad with grief, or grieve much at all.

But all of this was witnessed by Alicent, and would be a point in her story as well. She would take care of the children, and would demand Blood’s real name so she could find and bathe in the blood of his family.

In the show she is fucking Criston (cause of course she has to be a hypocrite I guess), there are no guards, she barley cares Jaehaerys is dead and doesn’t even bring him up when Rhaenyra asks for a son for a son.

Like Alicent can’t even be rageful and violent after witnessing her grandson be butchered, and apparently not witnessing it at all cause it was more important to have her be a hypocrite than a victim

Rhaenyra again, doesn't do much during season 2. At all. She goes to Kings Landing to make peace with Alicent (who has no power) after blood had been spilt on both sides. Like the person sitting the throne believes her responsible for the death of his son and Rhaenyra is just "Well peace". Not to mention that all her ambiton has to do with TPTWP and not just her wanting the throne. She has to have some honorable reason for it. She can't just want for things.

Even in season 1, she ended episode 7 with a whole ass monologue about how she wanted her enemies to fear her, and did so by having it look like she had her husband killed so she could bang her uncle. Next episode she’s by Viserys talking about how she never wanted it, and then completely bamboozled when Aegon takes the throne, partly due to them fearing her, when that was what she wanted an hour ago.

Not to mention it makes no sense to come there and ask for peace (ex Rhaenyra getting the throne) by offering nothing. Really showing up there styled like she’s gonna be an extra in Sound of Music and wants what the other side already has, and gives no reason why it should be so, except that her daddy said she could play dictator

Her council is constantly shown as sexist, while making valid points again and again. Maybe they will come back to it as karma to Rhaenyra, but at this point I doubt it. She did something with the dragonseeds, before deciding that peace is still best. Now in season 3, there has started to be some hints that she’s gonna be ruthless, but it seems like she’s gonna cheer the smallfolk on.

I will also say that there more then likely were sexist people on her council, but with the way she was acting the only thing that would happen would them being proven right in their thinking that women are too pure, can’t rule and don’t understand politics or war.

Rhaenys was declined the position of Queen in favor of Viserys, sucks. But her entire plot in the beginning was how she had come to terms with it and was more bothered by Corlys' endless ambition (again, she can't just want for it). Then she is suddenly all about crowning Rhaenyra (which fine), even though she believes she ordered the death of Laenor and was offered bethrotals that she herself said reeked of desperation. She is then suddenly all about Rhaenyra as Queen (because she apparantly can't be on a side for her own political ambition, like her grandaughter), all about Jaehaerys (I guess that is still peepaw) and is all about peace and the ones respondible (she commited mass murder of innocents two days ago) for the war is the men.

Even though, you know, the team black could have agreed to the peace terms because Aegon won the game of 'You snooze, you lose' when it came to being crowned. I am not saying that they should have given up on their cause, but why the fuck are they talking about peace when they refused it in the first place.

Mysaria the Humanitarian (do I need to say more). She actually had some character development, but still, is for the smallfolk.

Also, why must every women either be for Rhaenyra, or be shown as bad for not being for her. Like this is the battle of dictators, not gods chosen ruler.

That is not even point out how it feels like characters like Helaena (Bran 2.0), Baela and Rhaena have as much charachter development (and relevancy) as the Crabfeeder.

I guess Rhaena has gotten something with Sheepstealer, as they merged her with Nettles, who was a bastard without apparent Valyrian heritage who claimed a dragon, and her entire existence is important to show Rhaenyra’s paranoia and cruelty later, and also a comment on how their blood might not make them all that special and classism in general.

Which was merged with a trueborn lady whose only hardship in life seems to be that she didn’t have a dragon, cause up until she got a dragon, that was 99% of what she was on about.

Baela is a Rhaenyra supporter. Change her name and I probably wouldn’t be able to understand that who she was having read the book.

This is not me saying that women has to want the throne, or be politically good or whatever. But to constantly show them as not capable of those things is just iffy to me.

What makes it worse for me is that I truly believe it is unintended. When consuming media in general, it feels like I can tell pretty well when the a certain thing is made by misogynistics, because they have a certain way to describe women. These writers come from the desire to be feminist, and turns every women incapable, which leads me to believe that that is how they view women. It honeslty makes me a bit angry.

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 3 days ago

ElI5: How important is a good sleep?

Obviously sleeping is vital to our life, but how important is it really to get enough hours every night, and a good quality sleep as well?

If someone sleeps 5-6 hours most nights, is there a true difference between those who sleep 7-8 hours most nights?

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 7 days ago

Super Soaker being AI

Apparently it’s been discovered that Super Soaker is AI or partly AI generated

I’m not sure how true it is, but bylers on X are freaking out

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 8 days ago

I would like the new season except this one thing

The show is obviously doing its own thing atp, and I would say mostly it’s for the worse, but it still has its moment and I would enjoy it except what the fuck they have done to Alicent

Basically starting the season mad as fuck she can’t kill Aegon, acting all pouty, basically manipulating Aemond to go and die.

There are other complaints I have of course, like the lack of Nettles and Maelor, and how Helaena seems to forget she had a son.

But it’s the Alicent thing of it all I just can’t get past. I have literally never seen a character be so ruined so quickly.

Like season 1 had some inconsistencies, mostly after Driftmark when she thought Rhaenyra would be a good Queen and only crowned Aegon cause she thought it was Viserys’ wish. But we went from her dragging Aegon to the throne kicking and screaming to her selling her entire family for no reason except so she could feel redeemed or something

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 9 days ago

Aegon can speak Valyrian

I’ve seen many talk about how he can’t speak Valyrian, or how he can’t speak it to Sunfyre

But like, the scene shows us he can speak it, not just well. He makes grammatical issues and has trouble forming sentences, but he clearly has a grasp of the language, and shows understanding when Aemond speaks it.

Idk why but it bothers me when people act like he can’t speak one word of Valyrian when he clearly is shown understanding and speaking it, just not at a C1 level lol

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 9 days ago

Fics centered around Helaena

Or where she is a very relevant character

I would love any recs

I have tried asking on thecitadel but they take four years just to approve my post asking for a bedtime fanfic like it might be a bomb threat lol

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 12 days ago

Dragon Family Tree

This is my attempt at figuring out the dragon family tree with the little info we get in the books

First Generation - Before Conquest

_

Balerion

The Black Dread hatched in or before 114 BC in Valyria. He died in 94 AC soon after being claimed by a young Viserys.

Coloring: Black. Red flames.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Quicksilver, Vermithor, Dreamfyre, Silverwing, Caraxes (possibly), Vhagar (possibly)

_

The Cannibal

The Cannibal was a wild dragon. It is unknown when he hatched, but the people of dragonstone believed it to be before the Targaryens arrived in Westeros. That would make him the oldest or second oldest dragon in Westeros. Though he was smaller than Vhagar during the dance. He was extremely aggressive, never had a rider and was known to eat dragon eggs and possibly carcasses of other dragons. The Cannibal vanished some time after the dance, but when he died is unknown. 

Coloring: He was black as coal with green eyes.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Unlikely that he ever had any due to his aggressive nature toward his own kind.

_

Meraxes ♀️

Meraxes hatched on Dragonstone between the arrival of the Targaryen family in Westeros and 88 BC. Meraxes' age during the beginning of the conquest was around 114 to 88 years old. She died in 10 AC after being struck by a scorpion (weapon) 

Coloring: Silver scales. Gold eyes.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Quicksilver, Vhagar (possibly)

_

Vhagar ♀️

Vhagar hatched on Dragonstone in 52 BC and was 52 at the start of conquest. She died in 130 AC after suffering grievous injuries, and not being able to pull herself up from the water. 

Coloring: Not stated in the book. GRRM stated afterward that she was bronze with green/blue highlights. She had bright green eyes. Her flames were also green.

Maternity: Meraxes (possibly), other dragon brought from the doom

Paternity: Balerion (possibly), other dragon brought from the doom

Hatchlings: Vermithor (similar coloring), Caraxes, Meleys

_

Second Generation - Before 50 AC

Quicksilver♀️

Quicksilver hatched in 7 AC at Dragonstone. When she was 36 she was a quarter the size of Balerion. She died after grievous injuries, including the total separation of one wing from her body, causing her to fall.

Coloring: Likely silver

Maternity: Meraxes (most likely)

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings: Dreamfyre, Silverwing (possibly, given the color)

_

Sheepstealer:

Sheepstealer hatched in or before 35 AC. He was a wild dragon until he was claimed by Nettles in 129 AC. 

Coloring: He was mud brown.

Maternity: Unsure

Paternity: Possibly Balerion. Vermithor is very unlikely since he would be very young.

It is a bit complicated with Sheepstealer because all dragons were claimed at this time, and no record of an egg that disappeared. 

Hatchlings:
_

Dreamfyre♀️

Dreamfyre hatched in or shortly before 32 AC. She was ridden for the first time in 35 AC, though slender seemed to be big at a young age. She died in 130 AC after being crushed by the roof of the Dragonpit

Coloring: Pale blue with silver markings. Pale blue wings.

Maternity: Quicksilver

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings:

Silverwing (possibly)

Seasmoke (possibly)

Syrax (possibly)

Morghul (very likely, he was the egg given to Helaena Targaryen’s daughter)

Shyrkos (very likely, she was the egg given to Helaena Targaryen’s son),

Rhaegal (very likely), Viserion (very likely), Drogon (very likely).
_

Vermithor

The Bronze Fury hatched in 34 AC as the cradle dragon of Jaehaerys I. He grew very quickly, and by the time he was 14 he was the third largest dragon, surpassed only by Balerion and Vhagar. His supposed mate is Silverwing. He died in 130 AC after being fatally injured during a fight.

Coloring: Bronze, with tan wings. Red or golden flames.

Maternity: Vhagar (similar coloring), Dreamfyre (egg gifted by Rhaena)

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings: Sunfyre (very likely), Seasmoke (possibly), Meleys (possibly), Caraxes (possibly)

_

Silverwing♀️

Silverwing hatched between 36-42 AC in the cradle of Alysanne Targaryen. Her supposed mate is Vermithor. She died between 136-153 AC, reasons unknown.

Coloring: Silver. Blue flames (possible)

Maternity: Quicksilver (similar coloring), Dreamfyre (similar coloring, and the egg was gifted by Rhaena).

Paternity: Balarion

Hatchlings:

Sunfyre (extremely likely, Silverwing was the only she-dragon at Dragonmont at the time of Sunfyre’s birth),

Caraxes (possible), Meleys (possible)

The Third Generation - Before 100 AC

Caraxes

The Blood Wyrm hatched before 72 AC, but exactly when and where is unknown. However, as a hatchling he resided in the Dragonpit, making it his likely place of birth. He was capable of being ridden in 72 AC, since Dreamfyre was around 3 years when ridden for the first time, Caraxes could also have been of similar age. He was huge but lean.

Coloring: Red

Maternity: Vhagar (resided in Kings Landing), Silverwing (resided in Kings Landing)

Paternity: Balerion or Vermithor

Hatchlings: Meleys (possible), Morning, Vermax (possibly)

_

Meleys♀️

The Red Queen hatched in or before 75 AC, and resided in the Dragonpit 75 AC. She was known to be very fast, besting both Caraxes and Vhagar. She died in 129 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Scarlet scales, and pink wings. Her horns, crest and claws were bright copper

Maternity: Vhagar (Resided in King's Landing at the time), Silverwing (resided in King’s Landing at the time), Dreamfyre (resided in Kings Landing)

Paternity: Caraxes (similar coloring), Balerion (possible)

Hatchlings: Seasmoke (Less likely)

_

Seasmoke

Seasmoke hatched in or before 101 AC. In 101 AC he was a young dragon, but unridden. He died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring:Pale-silver gray. Possibly blue flames.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (most likely, she resided in Kings Landing during this time). Meleys (was the mount of Leanor’s mother)

Paternity: Caraxes or Vermithor (both resided in King's Landing). 

Hatchlings: Arrax, Vermax and Tyraxes (possibly)

Fourth Generation - Before 120 AC

Syrax♀️

Syrax hatched before 104 AC, the year in which Rhaenyra Targaryen took her as a mount, and at the time she was a young dragon. The show made Syrax a cradle dragon (I believe), but bookwise it is often described if the dragon was a cradle egg. She died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Yellow scales.

Maternity: Silverwing (if she hatched on dragonmont Silverwing is the most likely mother), Dreamfyre (if she hatched in Kings Landing Dreamfyre is the most likely mother). 

Paternity: Vermithor (possibly), Caraxes (possibly).

Hatchlings: Morning (confirmed), Arrax (likely), Vermax (likely), Tyraxes (likely), Stormcloud (likely)

_

Sunfyre

The Golden hatched on Dragonstone before 120 AC. It is unknown exactly when, but by 120 AC he had been claimed by Aegon II. He was considered huge and heavy, and a formidable fighter despite his age. He died in 130 AC after suffering multiple grievous injuries that eventually led to his death, 

Coloring: Gleaming gold scale, and pale pink wing membranes.

Maternity: Silverwing (only female dragon residing in dragonstone during this time)

Paternity: Vermithor (possibly, similar flames. Silverwing and Vermithor were both at dragonstone and coiling).

Hatchlings: Shrykos and Morghul (only male dragons residing in the pit)

Tessarion, Arrax and Tyraxes could also be possible, if Sunfyre resided in the pit at this time.

_

Vermax

Vermax hatched between 114-120 AC as the cradle egg of Jacaerys Velaryon. To prove their legitimacy he and his brothers were given cradle eggs, with the last one hatching in 120 AC, so it is more likely that Vermax hatched closer to 114 AC. He was known to thrive and grow larger and larger every year. He died in 130 AC after crashing into a burning ship, possibly caused by either a fatal crossbow or distress after being struck. Mushroom’s account said Vermax laid eggs, making him a a she-dragon, but it was never confirmed.

Coloring: Not described in the books. In the show he has olive green with orange membranes. 

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Jacaerys’ mother), Dreamfyre (also laid clutches and resided in King's Landing)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly, he resided in Kings Landing, but Leanor Velaryon was also known to take trips), Caraxes (between the years 106-115 AC when he would return from the stepstones he was known to fly with Syrax).

Hatchlings: None. Possible egg with Moondancer (?)

_

Arrax

Arrax hatched between 115-120 AC in the cradle of Lucerys Velaryon. He too was thriving and growing larger every year. He died in 129 AC after being consumed by Vhagar.

Coloring: Not described in the book. GRRM stated after that Arrax was “pearlescent white with yellow flame, golden eyes and a golden chest.

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Lucerys’ mother). Dreamfyre (resided in King's Landing, and was pale blue in color)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly, resided in Kings Landing when Leanor wasn’t traveling). Sunfyre (unlikely. Though it is possible that he resided in King’s Landing at this time. Has some similar coloring)

_

Tyraxes

Tyraxes hatched between 117-120 AC in the cradle of Joffrey Velaryon. He was also thriving and growing larger every year. He died in 130 AC after being fatally injured due to entrapment. 

Coloring: Not described in the books. GRRM stated afterward that he was “a pale violet dragon with dark purple horns and purple flame.

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Lucerys’ mother). Dreamfyre (resided in King's Landing, and was pale blue in color)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly, resided in Kings Landing when Leanor wasn’t traveling). Sunfyre (unlikely. Though it is possible that he resided in King’s Landing at this time).

Hatchlings:None

_

Tessarion♀️

The Blue Queen hatched in or before 120 AC, but she was younger than Sunfyre. She is often believed to have been born in the cradle of Daeron Targaryen, but is it simply stated that by the time Daeron was six he had bonded with Tessarion. 

Coloring: Dark cobalt wings. Her claws, crest and belly scales were colored right bright beaten copper.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (likely since she resided in King’s Landing, and possibly was the mount of Helaena Targaryen when Tessarion’s egg came about), Syrax (Less likely, but a female dragon residing in King's Landing), Silverwing (if she hatched on Dragonstone)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly), Vermithor (if she hatched on Dragonstone), Sunfyre (unlikely, but he could have resided in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings: Shrykos (possible), Morghul (possible), Maelor’s egg (less likely)

_

Moondancer♀️

It is unknown when Moondancer hatched. In 118 AC Rhaena Targaryen was given a dragon egg. It is not stated whether Baela received one as well. Moondancer was too small (also slender) to ride in 129 AC. It is possible that she hatched in 118 AC but was simply very slow growing. She died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Pale green. Her horns, crest and wingbones were the color of pearl

Maternity: Syrax, Dreamfyre or Vhagar (unlikely due to her size)

Paternity: Seasmoke or Caraxes

Hatchlings: At least one egg
_

Grey Ghost

Grey Ghost was a wild dragon who hatched on Dragonmont. It is not known when, but he was considered young. He was shy and preferred to be alone. He died from fatal injuries in 130 AC, most likely after being attacked by Sunfyre.

Coloring: Pale-grey white, like the morning mist. 

Maternity: Silverwing (only female dragon on dragonstone. Syrax is excluded due to her eggs most likely being retained by Rhaenyra)

Paternity: Vermithor

Hatchlings:

Fifth Generation - After 120 AC

Stormcloud

Stormcloud hatched in the cradle of Aegon III. Exactly when is not described, but as early as 120 AC. 

Coloring: Not described in the book, but GRRM stated afterward that he was turquoise, with black wings and claws. He was ridden for the first time in 130 AC. He died in 130 after suffering from fatal injuries. 

Maternity: Syrax (most likely. Rhaenyra and Daemon were not welcome to Kings Landing after their marriage, and it is unlikely that they would receive an egg)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly), Caraxes (possibly).

Hatchlings: None

_

Morghul

Morghul hatched in the cradle of Jaehaera Targaryen, as early as 123 AC. He remained unridden until his death, but if it was due to size or Jaehaera being considered simple is not stated. He died during the storming of the dragonpit. The cause of death was most likely a spear through his eye.

Coloring: Not described in the book, but illustrations have shown him as black and it has not been rebuked.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (the mount of Jaehaera’s mother), Tessarion (the mount of Jaehaera’s uncle).

Paternity: Sunfyre (only male dragon residing in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings: Egg with Shrykos (possible), which could be Maelor’s egg

_

Shrykos♀️

Shyrkos hatched in the cradle of Jaehaerys Targaryen, as early as 123 AC. She remained unridden until her death, but if it was due to a small size or anything else is not mentioned. She died during the storming of the dragonpit after an ax struck her with seven blows to the neck.

Coloring: Her color is not stated in the books, but in illustrations she is “copperish”

Maternity:Dreamfyre (the mount of Jaehaera’s mother), Tessarion (the mount of Jaehaera’s uncle).

Paternity: Sunfyre (only male dragon residing in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings:At least one egg, possibly the egg given to Maelor.
_

Maelor Targaryen’s Egg

Maelor Targaryen was given a cradle egg. The egg never hatched due to Maelor’s untimely death. There is no evidence of it turning to stone during Maelor’s lifetime.

Coloring:The egg was pale green with sworls of silver.

Maternity: Dreamfyre and Shyrkos are the most likely. Tessarion is less likely due to Daeron leaving for Oldtown the year before Maelor’s birth.

Paternity: Sunfyre or Morghul.

_

Morning♀️

Morning hatched in late 130 AC or early 131 AC. She was ridden for the first time in 135 AC. She died before 153 AC, due to unknown causes. It is possible that the death of dragons affected her lifespan.

Coloring: Pale pink scales. Her crest and horns were black.

Maternity: Syrax

Paternity:Caraxes (most likely)

Hatchlings: At least one egg. 

_

The Last Dragon♀️

The last dragon hatched during the reign of Aegon III. She was never bonded with anyone. She died in 153 AC. It is rumored that Aegon III poisoned her, but she could have just died due to the death of dragons. After the end of the Targaryen dynasty two small  misshapen dragon skulls were hung on a wall of dragon skulls. It is possible that one of them belonged to The Last Dragon.

Coloring: She was green. 

Paternity and Maternity:It is unclear where the egg came from, when it was laid or even the color of the egg. Moondancer is maybe an option because she also was green.

Hatchlings: A clutch of five unhatched eggs.

_

Rhaegal

Rhaegal hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with the eggs. Is was previously thought that the eggs were stone. 

Coloring: Green and bronze. His scales and wings are jade green. Bronze eyes. He has black claws and teeth. His flames are orange and yellow, or acombination between the two.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (one of the eggs that disappeared)

Paternity: Balerion

_

Viserion

Viserion hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with the eggs. Is was previously thought that the eggs were stone. 

Coloring:Most of his scales are cream colored, but his horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold. His teeth are black. His flame is pale gold.

Maternity: Dreamfyre

Paternity: Balerion

_

Drogon

Dragon hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with three eggs. It was previously thought that the eggs were stone. He is ridden by Daenerys Targaryen. He is the largest of the three.

Coloring: He is black with scarlet slashed on his scales. His horns and claws are scarlet as well. His teeth are black. His flame is black shot with red.

Maternity: Dreamfyre

Paternity: Balerion

_

Reproduction: I assume that dragons reproduce sexually for 3 major reasons:

  1. Asexual reproduction equals an exact copy of oneself, and no dragons are. Sexual reproduction doesn’t necessarily have to include the act of sex as viewed, it is just the combination of genes. It is also possible that dragons lay eggs, but without fertilization they will not hatch. That could explain the amount of eggs never hatching. 
  2. They are known to mate. Vermithor and Silverwing are thought to be mates, and that they regularly coil together as well. Seasmoke and Tessarion are also thought to have been mate-calling each other. I would say that the majority of species mate for one major reason, which is reproduction.
  3. I general if the reproduction were asexual it would be more likely that they would change their gender, which I have seen no evidence of.

They are male or female. Since there is no difference unless they lay eggs, it’s hard to know tho.

_

Other Dragons:The Targaryen family brought multiple dragons with them after the doom. So obviously some of these dragons could be descendants of those dragons, but I tried to make it work with those known.

There are also unnamed hatchlings throughout the story.

_

Females:Dragons do not have sexual dimorphism. Sexual dimorphism is when a species has clear physical differences between the females and the males. It could be size, color, fat distribution or anything that is different. Dragons do not experience that and the only way to know if a dragon is female is if they lay eggs. So every she-dragon has laid at least one egg. 

_

Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes: It is generally thought that Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes are the hatchlings of Syrax; it is possible that they might not be. I still think the most likely answer is Syrax, but when I did my little research I found that it said that Viserys made it a royal decree for eggs to be placed in the cradles of Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey. Which means that if Syrax did not lay a clutch in time that eggs were taken from Dreamfyre. 

_

Syrax and Tessarion: While it is commonly thought that Syrax and Tessarion were cradle eggs it is more likely that they were claimed. Every cradle egg has been specifically described as a cradle egg, Syrax and Tessarion were not described as such. 

_

Syrax is the mother of Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon:Behind the scenes of the show it was stated that the eggs sent with Rhaena were Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon. Even if the canon between show and book are different, the eggs in Game of Thrones are also specifically stated to have been lost in Essos (I believe it is Essos). That makes it almost 100% sure that Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon hatched from the three eggs stolen by Elissa Farmen (a former friend/possible lover of Rhaena Targaryen) when she fled to Pentos.

_

Color: While there are exceptions many dragons seem to share at least part of their coloring with other dragons, which might suggest a genetic relation.

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 29 days ago

Dragon Family Tree

This is my attempt at figuring out the dragon family tree with the little info we get in the books

First Generation - Before Conquest

Balerion 

The Black Dread hatched in or before 114 BC in Valyria. He died in 94 AC soon after being claimed by a young Viserys.

Coloring: Black. Red flames.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Quicksilver, Vermithor, Dreamfyre, Silverwing, Caraxes (possibly), Vhagar (possibly)

_____________________________________________

The Cannibal

The Cannibal was a wild dragon. It is unknown when he hatched, but the people of dragonstone believed it to be before the Targaryens arrived in Westeros. That would make him the oldest or second oldest dragon in Westeros. Though he was smaller than Vhagar during the dance. He was extremely aggressive, never had a rider and was known to eat dragon eggs and possibly carcasses of other dragons. The Cannibal vanished some time after the dance, but when he died is unknown. 

Coloring: He was black as coal with green eyes.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Unlikely that he ever had any due to his aggressive nature toward his own kind.

_____________________________________________

Meraxes ♀️

Meraxes hatched on Dragonstone between the arrival of the Targaryen family in Westeros and 88 BC. Meraxes' age during the beginning of the conquest was around 114 to 88 years old. She died in 10 AC after being struck by a scorpion (weapon) 

Coloring: Silver scales. Gold eyes.

Maternity: Unknown

Paternity: Unknown

Hatchlings: Quicksilver, Vhagar (possibly)

_____________________________________________
Vhagar ♀️

Vhagar hatched on Dragonstone in 52 BC and was 52 at the start of conquest. She died in 130 AC after suffering grievous injuries, and not being able to pull herself up from the water. 

Coloring: Not stated in the book. GRRM stated afterward that she was bronze with green/blue highlights. She had bright green eyes. Her flames were also green.

Maternity: Meraxes (possibly), other dragon brought from the doom

Paternity: Balerion (possibly), other dragon brought from the doom

Hatchlings: Vermithor (similar coloring), Caraxes, Meleys

_____________________________________________

Second Generation - Before 50 AC

Quicksilver ♀️

Quicksilver hatched in 7 AC at Dragonstone. When she was 36 she was a quarter the size of Balerion. She died after grievous injuries, including the total separation of one wing from her body, causing her to fall.

Coloring: Likely silver

Maternity: Meraxes (most likely)

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings: Dreamfyre, Silverwing (possibly, given the color)

_____________________________________________

Sheepstealer:

Sheepstealer hatched in or before 35 AC. He was a wild dragon until he was claimed by Nettles in 129 AC. 

Coloring: He was mud brown.

Maternity: Unsure

Paternity: Possibly Balerion. Vermithor is very unlikely since he would be very young.

It is a bit complicated with Sheepstealer because all dragons were claimed at this time, and no record of an egg that disappeared. 

Hatchlings:

_____________________________________________

Dreamfyre ♀️

Dreamfyre hatched in or shortly before 32 AC. She was ridden for the first time in 35 AC, though slender seemed to be big at a young age. She died in 130 AC after being crushed by the roof of the Dragonpit

Coloring: Pale blue with silver markings. Pale blue wings.

Maternity: Quicksilver

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings:

Silverwing (possibly)

Seasmoke (possibly)

Syrax (possibly)

Morghul (very likely, he was the egg given to Helaena Targaryen’s daughter)

Shyrkos (very likely, she was the egg given to Helaena Targaryen’s son),

Rhaegal (very likely), Viserion (very likely), Drogon (very likely).

_____________________________________________

Vermithor

The Bronze Fury hatched in 34 AC as the cradle dragon of Jaehaerys I. He grew very quickly, and by the time he was 14 he was the third largest dragon, surpassed only by Balerion and Vhagar. His supposed mate is Silverwing. He died in 130 AC after being fatally injured during a fight.

Coloring: Bronze, with tan wings. Red or golden flames.

Maternity: Vhagar (similar coloring), Dreamfyre (egg gifted by Rhaena)

Paternity: Balerion

Hatchlings: Sunfyre (very likely), Seasmoke (possibly), Meleys (possibly), Caraxes (possibly)

_____________________________________________

Silverwing ♀️

Silverwing hatched between 36-42 AC in the cradle of Alysanne Targaryen. Her supposed mate is Vermithor. She died between 136-153 AC, reasons unknown.

Coloring: Silver. Blue flames (possible)

Maternity: Quicksilver (similar coloring), Dreamfyre (similar coloring, and the egg was gifted by Rhaena).

Paternity: Balarion

Hatchlings:

Sunfyre (extremely likely, Silverwing was the only she-dragon at Dragonmont at the time of Sunfyre’s birth),

Caraxes (possible), Meleys (possible)

_____________________________________________

The Third Generation - Before 100 AC

Caraxes

The Blood Wyrm hatched before 72 AC, but exactly when and where is unknown. However, as a hatchling he resided in the Dragonpit, making it his likely place of birth. He was capable of being ridden in 72 AC, since Dreamfyre was around 3 years when ridden for the first time, Caraxes could also have been of similar age. He was huge but lean.

Coloring: Red

Maternity: Vhagar (resided in Kings Landing), Silverwing (resided in Kings Landing)

Paternity: Balerion or Vermithor

Hatchlings: Meleys (possible), Morning, Vermax (possibly)

___________________________________________

Meleys ♀️

The Red Queen hatched in or before 75 AC, and resided in the Dragonpit 75 AC. She was known to be very fast, besting both Caraxes and Vhagar. She died in 129 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Scarlet scales, and pink wings. Her horns, crest and claws were bright copper

Maternity: Vhagar (Resided in King's Landing at the time), Silverwing (resided in King’s Landing at the time), Dreamfyre (resided in Kings Landing)

Paternity: Caraxes (similar coloring), Balerion (possible)

Hatchlings: Seasmoke (Less likely)

_____________________________________________

Seasmoke

Seasmoke hatched in or before 101 AC. In 101 AC he was a young dragon, but unridden. He died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Pale-silver gray. Possibly blue flames.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (most likely, she resided in Kings Landing during this time). Meleys (was the mount of Leanor’s mother)

Paternity: Caraxes or Vermithor (both resided in King's Landing). 

Hatchlings: Arrax, Vermax and Tyraxes (possibly)

_____________________________________________

Fourth Generation - Before 120 AC
___________________________________________

Syrax ♀️

Syrax hatched before 104 AC, the year in which Rhaenyra Targaryen took her as a mount, and at the time she was a young dragon. The show made Syrax a cradle dragon (I believe), but bookwise it is often described if the dragon was a cradle egg. She died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Yellow scales.

Maternity: Silverwing (if she hatched on dragonmont Silverwing is the most likely mother), Dreamfyre (if she hatched in Kings Landing Dreamfyre is the most likely mother). 

Paternity: Vermithor (possibly), Caraxes (possibly).

Hatchlings: Morning (confirmed), Arrax (likely), Vermax (likely), Tyraxes (likely), Stormcloud (likely)

_____________________________________________

Sunfyre

The Golden hatched on Dragonstone before 120 AC. It is unknown exactly when, but by 120 AC he had been claimed by Aegon II. He was considered huge and heavy, and a formidable fighter despite his age. He died in 130 AC after suffering multiple grievous injuries that eventually led to his death, 

Coloring: Gleaming gold scale, and pale pink wing membranes.

Maternity: Silverwing (only female dragon residing in dragonstone during this time)

Paternity: Vermithor (possibly, similar flames. Silverwing and Vermithor were both at dragonstone and coiling).

Hatchlings: Shrykos and Morghul (only male dragons residing in the pit)

Tessarion, Arrax and Tyraxes could also be possible, if Sunfyre resided in the pit at this time.

_____________________________________________

Vermax

Vermax hatched between 114-120 AC as the cradle egg of Jacaerys Velaryon. To prove their legitimacy he and his brothers were given cradle eggs, with the last one hatching in 120 AC, so it is more likely that Vermax hatched closer to 114 AC. He was known to thrive and grow larger and larger every year. He died in 130 AC after crashing into a burning ship, possibly caused by either a fatal crossbow or distress after being struck. Mushroom’s account said Vermax laid eggs, making him a a she-dragon, but it was never confirmed.

Coloring: Not described in the books. In the show he has olive green with orange membranes. 

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Jacaerys’ mother), Dreamfyre (also laid clutches and resided in King's Landing)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly, he resided in Kings Landing, but Leanor Velaryon was also known to take trips), Caraxes (between the years 106-115 AC when he would return from the stepstones he was known to fly with Syrax).

Hatchlings: None. Possible egg with Moondancer (?)

_____________________________________________

Arrax

Arrax hatched between 115-120 AC in the cradle of Lucerys Velaryon. He too was thriving and growing larger every year. He died in 129 AC after being consumed by Vhagar.

Coloring: Not described in the book. GRRM stated after that Arrax was “pearlescent white with yellow flame, golden eyes and a golden chest.

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Lucerys’ mother). Dreamfyre (resided in King's Landing, and was pale blue in color)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly, resided in Kings Landing when Leanor wasn’t traveling). Sunfyre (unlikely. Though it is possible that he resided in King’s Landing at this time. Has some similar coloring)

_____________________________________________

Tyraxes

Tyraxes hatched between 117-120 AC in the cradle of Joffrey Velaryon. He was also thriving and growing larger every year. He died in 130 AC after being fatally injured due to entrapment. 

Coloring: Not described in the books. GRRM stated afterward that he was “a pale violet dragon with dark purple horns and purple flame.

Maternity: Syrax (likely, since Syrax laid multiple clutches and was the mount of Lucerys’ mother). Dreamfyre (resided in King's Landing, and was pale blue in color)

Paternity:  Seasmoke (possibly, resided in Kings Landing when Leanor wasn’t traveling). Sunfyre (unlikely. Though it is possible that he resided in King’s Landing at this time).

Hatchlings: None

_____________________________________________

Tessarion ♀️

The Blue Queen hatched in or before 120 AC, but she was younger than Sunfyre. She is often believed to have been born in the cradle of Daeron Targaryen, but is it simply stated that by the time Daeron was six he had bonded with Tessarion. 

Coloring: Dark cobalt wings. Her claws, crest and belly scales were colored right bright beaten copper.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (likely since she resided in King’s Landing, and possibly was the mount of Helaena Targaryen when Tessarion’s egg came about), Syrax (Less likely, but a female dragon residing in King's Landing), Silverwing (if she hatched on Dragonstone)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly), Vermithor (if she hatched on Dragonstone), Sunfyre (unlikely, but he could have resided in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings: Shyrkos (possible), Morghul (possible), Maelor’s egg (less likely)

_____________________________________________

Moondancer ♀️

It is unknown when Moondancer hatched. In 118 AC Rhaena Targaryen was given a dragon egg. It is not stated whether Baela received one as well. Moondancer was too small (also slender) to ride in 129 AC. It is possible that she hatched in 118 AC but was simply very slow growing. She died in 130 AC after suffering fatal injuries.

Coloring: Pale green. Her horns, crest and wingbones were the color of pearl

Maternity: Syrax, Dreamfyre or Vhagar (unlikely due to her size)

Paternity: Seasmoke or Caraxes

Hatchlings: At least one egg

_____________________________________________

Grey Ghost

Grey Ghost was a wild dragon who hatched on Dragonmont. It is not known when, but he was considered young. He was shy and preferred to be alone. He died from fatal injuries in 130 AC, most likely after being attacked by Sunfyre.

Coloring: Pale-grey white, like the morning mist. 

Maternity: Silverwing (only female dragon on dragonstone. Syrax is excluded due to her eggs most likely being retained by Rhaenyra)

Paternity: Vermithor

Hatchlings:

______________________________________________________

Fifth Generation - After 120 AC

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Stormcloud

Stormcloud hatched in the cradle of Aegon III. Exactly when is not described, but as early as 120 AC. 

Coloring: Not described in the book, but GRRM stated afterward that he was turquoise, with black wings and claws. He was ridden for the first time in 130 AC. He died in 130 after suffering from fatal injuries. 

Maternity: Syrax (most likely. Rhaenyra and Daemon were not welcome to Kings Landing after their marriage, and it is unlikely that they would receive an egg)

Paternity: Seasmoke (possibly), Caraxes (possibly).

Hatchlings: None

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Morghul

Morghul hatched in the cradle of Jaehaera Targaryen, as early as 123 AC. He remained unridden until his death, but if it was due to size or Jaehaera being considered simple is not stated. He died during the storming of the dragonpit. The cause of death was most likely a spear through his eye.

Coloring: Not described in the book, but illustrations have shown him as black and it has not been rebuked.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (the mount of Jaehaera’s mother), Tessarion (the mount of Jaehaera’s uncle).

Paternity: Sunfyre (only male dragon residing in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings: Egg with Shrykos (possible), which could be Maelor’s egg

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Shrykos ♀️

Shyrkos hatched in the cradle of Jaehaerys Targaryen, as early as 123 AC. She remained unridden until her death, but if it was due to a small size or anything else is not mentioned. She died during the storming of the dragonpit after an ax struck her with seven blows to the neck.

Coloring: Her color is not stated in the books, but in illustrations she is “copperish”

Maternity: Dreamfyre (the mount of Jaehaera’s mother), Tessarion (the mount of Jaehaera’s uncle).

Paternity:  Sunfyre (only male dragon residing in King’s Landing at this time)

Hatchlings: At least one egg, possibly the egg given to Maelor.

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Maelor Targaryen’s Egg

Maelor Targaryen was given a cradle egg. The egg never hatched due to Maelor’s untimely death. There is no evidence of it turning to stone during Maelor’s lifetime.

Coloring: The egg was pale green with sworls of silver.

Maternity: Dreamfyre and Shyrkos are the most likely. Tessarion is less likely due to Daeron leaving for Oldtown the year before Maelor’s birth.

Paternity: Sunfyre or Morghul.

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Morning ♀️

Morning hatched in late 130 AC or early 131 AC. She was ridden for the first time in 135 AC. She died before 153 AC, due to unknown causes. It is possible that the death of dragons affected her lifespan.

Coloring: Pale pink scales. Her crest and horns were black.

Maternity: Syrax

Paternity: Caraxes (most likely)

Hatchlings: At least one egg. The Last Dragon

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The Last Dragon ♀️

The last dragon hatched during the reign of Aegon III. She was never bonded with anyone. She died in 153 AC. It is rumored that Aegon III poisoned her, but she could have just died due to the death of dragons. After the end of the Targaryen dynasty two small  misshapen dragon skulls were hung on a wall of dragon skulls. It is possible that one of them belonged to The Last Dragon.

Coloring: She was green. 

Paternity and Maternity: It is unclear where the egg came from, when it was laid or even the color of the egg. Moondancer is maybe an option because she also was green.

Hatchlings: A clutch of five unhatched eggs.

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Rhaegal

Rhaegal hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with the eggs. Is was previously thought that the eggs were stone. 

Coloring: Green and bronze. His scales and wings are jade green. Bronze eyes. He has black claws and teeth. His flames are orange and yellow, or acombination between the two.

Maternity: Dreamfyre (one of the eggs that disappeared)

Paternity: Balerion

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Viserion

Viserion hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with the eggs. Is was previously thought that the eggs were stone. 

Coloring: Most of his scales are cream colored, but his horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold. His teeth are black. His flame is pale gold.

Maternity: Dreamfyre

Paternity: Balerion

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Drogon

Dragon hatched in 299 AC after Daenerys Targaryen stepped into flames with three eggs. It was previously thought that the eggs were stone. He is ridden by Daenerys Targaryen. He is the largest of the three.

Coloring: He is black with scarlet slashed on his scales. His horns and claws are scarlet as well. His teeth are black. His flame is black shot with red.

Maternity: Dreamfyre

Paternity: Balerion

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Reproduction: I assume that dragons reproduce sexually for 3 major reasons:

  1. Asexual reproduction equals an exact copy of oneself, and no dragons are. Sexual reproduction doesn’t necessarily have to include the act of sex as viewed, it is just the combination of genes. It is also possible that dragons lay eggs, but without fertilization they will not hatch. That could explain the amount of eggs never hatching. 
  2. They are known to mate. Vermithor and Silverwing are thought to be mates, and that they regularly coil together as well. Seasmoke and Tessarion are also thought to have been mate-calling each other. I would say that the majority of species mate for one major reason, which is reproduction.
  3. I general if the reproduction were asexual it would be more likely that they would change their gender, which I have seen no evidence of.

They are male or female. Since there is no difference unless they lay eggs, it’s hard to know tho.

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Other Dragons: The Targaryen family brought multiple dragons with them after the doom. So obviously some of these dragons could be descendants of those dragons, but I tried to make it work with those known.

There are also unnamed hatchlings throughout the story.

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Females: Dragons do not have sexual dimorphism. Sexual dimorphism is when a species has clear physical differences between the females and the males. It could be size, color, fat distribution or anything that is different. Dragons do not experience that and the only way to know if a dragon is female is if they lay eggs. So every she-dragon has laid at least one egg. 

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Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes: It is generally thought that Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes are the hatchlings of Syrax; it is possible that they might not be. I still think the most likely answer is Syrax, but when I did my little research I found that it said that Viserys made it a royal decree for eggs to be placed in the cradles of Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey. Which means that if Syrax did not lay a clutch in time that eggs were taken from Dreamfyre. 

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Syrax and Tessarion: While it is commonly thought that Syrax and Tessarion were cradle eggs it is more likely that they were claimed. Every cradle egg has been specifically described as a cradle egg, Syrax and Tessarion were not described as such. 

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Syrax is the mother of Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon: Behind the scenes of the show it was stated that the eggs sent with Rhaena were Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon. Even if the canon between show and book are different, the eggs in Game of Thrones are also specifically stated to have been lost in Essos (I believe it is Essos). That makes it almost 100% sure that Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon hatched from the three eggs stolen by Elissa Farmen (a former friend/possible lover of Rhaena Targaryen) when she fled to Pentos.

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Color: While there are exceptions many dragons seem to share at least part of their coloring with other dragons, which might suggest a genetic relation.

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reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 29 days ago

Is it possible that Sylvie is….

Sylvenna Sand, or at least the equivalent of her?

Of course the name would be the first clue, but we also have her speaking of how the royals affect the smallfolk, which would be in line with

We also know Aegon has a relationship with her in some transactional form, and he visited the brothel she worked at in the book. In the show she could possibly be Gaemon’s mother, if she’s not Essie’s lover.

Idk how much time Gaemon will get, but it feels pretty unavoidable that he would get some during his time as “king”

And the name similarities, occupation and her speaking out on how the smallfolk are affected might point to it

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago

Is it possible that Sylvie is….

Sylvenna Sand, or at least the equivalent of her?

Of course the name would be the first clue, but we also have her speaking of how the royals affect the smallfolk, which would be in line with

We also know Aegon has a relationship with her in some transactional form, and he visited the brothel she worked at in the book. In the show she could possibly be Gaemon’s mother, if she’s not Essie’s lover.

Idk how much time Gaemon will get, but it feels pretty unavoidable that he would get some during his time as “king”

And the name similarities, occupation and her speaking out on how the smallfolk are affected might point to it

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago

Many people are misunderstanding the Olive Theory

For those who aren’t aware, the term grew popular from the show How I Met Your Mother, where they at first tell it as the couple Marshall and Lily are perfect cause Marshall didn’t like olives and Lily did; therefore he gave her the olives every time they had them at dinner

However, it turns out Marshall does in fact like olives, he only pretends not to because Lily likes them.

So in the end, it’s not about them being perfect because their likes and dislikes match, but because one party is willing to sacrifice something (minor) to make their partner happy.

Yet I have seen so many who use the theory in situations where someone simply doesn’t like “olives” or whatever is the stand in for them, and that is a sign of a good relationship. Which turns it into a completely different thing. The point isn’t that you’re made for each other and match each other perfectly, but that when you love someone, you will sacrifice the olives at dinner because your partner’s happiness is more important, and that’s what makes a good partnership

One is simply their likes and dislikes matching

One is one person willing to sacrifice a minor enjoyment because they want to make their partner happy

Not a big deal, but it annoys me every time I see it used wrong

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago
▲ 153 r/PetPeeves

People who misunderstand the Olive Theory

For those who aren’t aware, the term grew popular from the show How I Met Your Mother, where they at first tell it as the couple Marshall and Lily are perfect cause Marshall didn’t like olives and Lily did; therefore he gave her the olives every time they had them at dinner

However, it turns out Marshall does in fact like olives, he only pretends not to because Lily likes them.

So in the end, it’s not about them being perfect because their likes and dislikes match, but because one party is willing to sacrifice something (minor) to make their partner happy.

Yet I have seen so many who use the theory in situations where someone simply doesn’t like “olives” or whatever is the stand in for them, and that is a sign of a good relationship. Which turns it into a completely different thing. The point isn’t that you’re made for each other and matches perfectly, but that when you love someone, you will sacrifice the olives at dinner, and that’s what makes a good partnership

One is simply their likes and dislikes matching

One is one person willing to sacrifice a minor enjoyment because they want to make their partner happy

Not a big deal, but it annoys me every time I see it used badly

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago
▲ 103 r/PetPeeves

People who are judgy about when someone loses their virginity

Like who cares?

And it goes for both ends.

I lost mine when I was too young (imo) and if I tell someone that it’s suddenly gasps and people basically assuming I’ve had 10+ sexual partners and sleep with whoever. Which wouldn’t be wrong if I did that, but like the age someone lost their virginity doesn’t suddenly reveal how promiscuous they are.

Similarly if someone is a virgin at a slightly older age than the average or older.

One girl I knew literally went on a whole tangent about her roommate and “did you know she is 21, and a VIRGIN. How can you be 21 and a VIRGIN??”

It’s pretty fucking simple actually: she hasn’t had sex. Like who cares genuinely? How is your life in any way affected by someone else being a virgin?

reddit.com
u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago
▲ 825 r/HouseOfTheDragon+1 crossposts

This man was literally dragged kicking and screaming to his own coronation, only to be betrayed like two weeks later

His son is dead, and nobody cares.

Otto refused to teach him anything and just demeaned him. When Aegon actually tried he was just demeaned again and again.

His mother sold him out as soon as things became mildly difficult, even though she could have brought Rhaenyra in at the sept

His brother torched him, and want him dead cause he wants to be king and Aegon barked in the brothel

I’m team gold at this point

u/Reasonable_Day9942 — 1 month ago