u/Sea-Influence-5945

I only had one internship for a social media internship and I didn’t really like it. My friend told me that her marketing internship was so much different because in mine I had to do all the graphics, editing, and more myself. I felt so burnt out after it so I didn’t stay even when the boss offered to put me on a salary. If I’m being honest I don’t even know what an actual marketing job is like I was just doing it for experience.

Does anyone here have low empathy for dudes. It’s very difficult for me to see something from their perspective. I also feel this is why I can’t bring myself to love a male character in the many fandoms I’m in. The thing is this isn’t an issue that I have for women. In fact if a woman is going through something small I can’t help but feel for her. When a man is going through something I genuinely can’t feel anything. I also don’t hate men! I’m very neutral on them and have a few close guy friends.
It’s been difficult because in this society a lot of people unconsciously see men as the default and I have always felt out of place especially in my nerd spaces and friend groups.
Some examples I’ll give is seeing a famous male character like Spider-Man go through something doesn’t move me at all but seeing another character like Wanda go through something makes me feel emotional.

I just got reminded of the game. Is there a way to play it on pc or something? I sold my Wii sometime ago

I had an argument with another woman on tik tok and it lead to me wondering how we feel about tone policing?

The original video was a woman talking about how women suggesting the idea that men shouldn’t specialize in women’s health don’t know what they are talking about. She said that women who feel uncomfortable around other women deserve a choice and that women spouting those ideas are fear mongering. She talks about some data of women having good experiences with male medical professionals and more.

My issue with the video was that she started it off with something along the lines of “y’all aren’t woke if you’re saying this” and proceeds to call the women saying that men shouldn’t be in women’s health weird. She also says that men don’t go through years of school to be a creep, which has been proven to be wrong and entirely possible!

Although I do agree with her overall statement I didn’t feel like it was fair to the women who are wary of men in women’s health.

I left a comment basically saying that I agree but I feel women saying these things is because of the countless horror stories we hear. I even talked about two popular documentaries about male obgyn’s who inseminated women with their sperm without consent and didn’t get in trouble for it.

The back and forth kept happening. With me emphasizing that I agree with her but understand why women would react in such a way. I told her that I don’t feel it is productive to shame women who make comments like that especially because those comments don’t have any power because men will always remain in women’s health. I also said that if we want to combat fear mongering, painting these women as illogical for their logical reaction isn’t going to help and push them further away to more dangerous ideologies. She said she didn’t just say that and proceeds to bring up the data she talked about and then accused me of tone policing her.

In my opinion I didn’t downplay anything she was saying but I might have focused on her delivery a bit more. I just didn’t feel it was productive or change anything. She also accused me of having less empathy for women who are afraid of other women and told me I was being anti woman 😭

A similar situation happened where I was on the receiving end. I was unknowingly using a right wing dog whistle but when corrected I changed my wording. Another commenter was upset that I was being corrected and felt like it was obvious that wasn’t my intention and said to stop tone policing me. Although I was flattered she was sticking up for me I didn’t think it was a big deal and I didn’t think I was being tone policed by the correction.

This all leads to me asking if you guys feel like the phrase “tone policing” is getting misused in online spaces? I personally seen it used all the time in situations where it wasn’t happening especially in feminist conversations.

Personally I think a lot of people unknowingly rely on moral superiority when arguing their beliefs (and I’m included in this) any pushback on our tone feels like a threat to our authority which is why it’s so easy to say people are tone policing. I’ve seen it happen between black women and trans women in a niche tik tok drama with both sides accusing each other of tone policing. Ive seen the phrase so much that I’m confused on when it’s actually happening? The same thing happened to me with the word gaslighting. Also I’m just autistic so maybe I’m overthinking everything lol

I’m personally a Reina girl because well .. 🏳️‍🌈 but I think Celine will surprise us because she always has little braids in her hair and likes flowers so the dress might be flower themed.

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One thing about this chapter that everyone noticed was Ralsei acting different, and I think this is to show that he isn’t this pushover for Kris/player anymore. This chapter shows how Kris is isolating themselves with this secret. The only person they could be honest with was Ralsei, and while Ralsei expresses disapproval, he still affirms Kris in their situation and places trust in Kris. 
Compared to Noelle, their relationship with Kris is kind of similar! In the beginning you can see Ralsei making the player close their eyes to get some alone time with Kris. We never hear what they’re talking about but we can guess Ralsei was getting nothing from Kris judging from the Ralsei Tea HP value being 60 (it gets higher later on). 
Noelle’s tea value for Kris is 70, so only slightly higher. 
In the beginning it’s established Kris and Noelle have grown distant, and she’s surprised Kris is talking to her. It seems like Noelle and Ralsei were receiving close to nothing from Kris. This changes though, Kris only autonomously comforts two characters and that’s Noelle and Ralsei. In the weird route they go to Noelle’s house to apologize and console her after the situation that happened in the dark world. In chapter 4 Kris rebels against choosing mean dialogue for Ralsei and even hugs him.

In chapter 5 they both have become less of a pushover in both routes. In the weird route it’s more extreme for Noelle, but it still applies to the normal route.
-Noelle pushes back on her mom interrupting her time with Susie. 
-Noelle directly tells the player, “No, you're not going to control me anymore," in the aborted route when trying to go on the Ferris wheel with her.
-Ralsei expresses disapproval directly to Kris. 
-If we choose to fight Flowery, Susie and Ralsei will refuse.

Something else to add is that they have different wants, with Ralsei wanting to follow the prophecy the right way and Noelle being this foil to that by being the character that speed-runs the weird route with Kris. Noelle is a gamer girl, and from her blog we know she uses mods and enjoys finding glitches. Ralsei has a moment in chapter 3 when he disapproves of Susie playing the Tenna game differently! They both have completely different play styles. If Kris comes back from the S-rank games, Ralsei makes a comment and apologises for getting lost in an RPG game, but Susie comments that Ralsei was barely playing and just exploring. I think it’s interesting that Susie is the one to push these characters out of their shell and to do things differently, and I wonder if they’ll potentially get in a disagreement and Susie will have to intervene. Who knows? I hope at the very least they have an interaction. When Ralsei drinks Noelle’s tea, he says, "It's soft and sweet," so I don’t think it’s going to be all bad, and I hope it’s not because they are my favourite characters. <3

To add did anyone find it odd that Ralsei advises against going to festival with Noelle? now we know why. I wonder why Ralsei is okay with and supportive of Noelle coming to castle town? Maybe it’s because she won’t be with alone with Kris and that will cause a change in aborted weird routes direction? What do we think?
I think Ralsei knows she’s a part of the prophecy and now that the lake scene was successfully avoided maybe he feels more comfortable allowing her in castle town and in on everything.

Also didn’t really talk about Ralsei having fire power and Noelle having ice powers. Not sure what that means thematically and symbolically for Ralsei though. I also didn’t mention the dragon blazers reference to Ralsei because that’s been talked about a lot lol.

I’m not even asexual but diving into that rabbit hole makes me so sick to my stomach. I know it isn’t uncommon for asexual women to be harassed but this is a new low from weirdos.
And if nobody knows about it the YouTuber Jaiden Animations has been harassed for years by people making nsfw drawings and p*rn of her character with her family members and tagging her in it.

Title is a joke but does anyone have any theories on her role in the story/prophecy
(She is my favorite character so I may start glazing randomly)

I’ve only seen a few analysis/theory videos about her. Despite having less screen time I think we have an incredible amount of fun facts about her life/hobbies/personality because she has a lot of dialogue and importance to the story. I also wrote this before the patch with pink’s dialogue.

Keep in mind anything I say about the Spamton sweepstakes or unused text isn’t canon as Toby said only things in the game are canon. Still it’s interesting to look at! On her website made for the Spamton sweepstakes she explains the following:

She found an egg in the game Catpetterz 2 but the egg never hatched. She tried getting rid of it but couldn’t so she deleted the game and reinstalled it. The egg was still there so she decided to raise it and a text popped up saying “the egg left due to happiness” when the text usually says “the pet left due to sadness”
I haven’t heard many theories on how this may relate to Kris’s eggs? So if you have any feel free to share. (again I wrote this before the patch)

She’s also strangely connected to Spamton, since Spamton gives them the thorn ring. When attempting to equip the Dealmaker (Noelle has a lot of text for newer weapons possibly because she’s joining the party later). Noelle comments “(Seems... familiar?)”
Noelle wrote on her blog that one day she clicked on a spam email and chose to use the email as a mod on Cat Petterz 2.
In a Q&A, Spamton denies that Noelle is his mother.

Spamton "Q: Spamton, is noelle your mother?

A: YOU THINK THAT [Hochi mama] IS MY [Mama Hochi]!? NO!!! SHE'S JUST THE ONLY ONE THAT EVER READ MY... THAT EVER READ MY... THAT'S WHY I GAVE HER A [Little Blue Gift]!!! IT WAS THE WORLD'S FIRST [Charity]."

Another secret boss she has connections to is the best secret boss, Jevil. When attempting to equip the Devilsknife to Noelle she’ll comment ...? “It smiled at me?” And when equipping the Jevilstail she comments “…(I like it)..” I’ve also seen a handful of people point out the similarities between how Noelle feels in Ch. 5 and Jevil. Surprisingly chapter 5’s boss mentions Noelle by name. Gerson is the only secret boss she has no connection to other the fact that she’s Susie’s love interest and maybe Gerson alludes to her in the prophecy?

I could write about her connections/similarities to Kris and their parallels but that would be too long. I could also write about how she fits into the multiple who is the knight theories but that would be too long. Still she is related to the more mysterious characters. Canonically her and Susie have a mutual interest in each other. She has minor parallels with Ralsei, with his fire and her ice powers.
In chapter 2 Rudy says she should use fire shock against the silverdrake in Dragon Blazers and she says “I’d love to but the mage left the party.” Possibly alluding to Ralsei leaving the party at some point? Idk (isn’t Noelle also labeled as a mage? I see Ralsei as more of a cleric/healer) Ralsei also knows which items she can equip which is an odd thing to have knowledge about lol.

Some other significant things I found that probably aren’t important or incredibly important is:

-Noelle hoards 99 potions in dragon blazers. (It could have been any other number)

-Noelle and Susie’s color’s in the Ui are yellow and purple.

-Her and sans seems to have a good relationship: he gave her free mint lemonade and she goes to San’s store to open the freezer and stand in front of it.

-Before the undertale anniversary stream, sans is in a casino and shown to have rare dialogue that mentions Noelle and Dess. “woah, it looks like a blizzard in here. I’ve only seen it snow as bad as this once. You could barely see your bones in front of your face. But even so the king was out there in red and white. Putting down presents for everyone. Papyrus, the yellow kid, the antlered girl and her big sis…He even had a little something for me. Even though he didn’t really know me. (…) you’re gonna have to meet him, huh. Bet that’s a lot of pressure.”

-In a stream Toby Fox placed a child version of Noelle behind a Christmas tree, cryptically repeating, "No one else matters" over and over

-She’s the only character that has an oblique view sprite (idk if that’s the right term ). Where her body isn’t facing the front or side like every other character.

-there’s a undertale concept art that has a dragon and “angel” character fighting. With a small frisk and soul underneath them. The angel has horns or antlers with serpents behind them.

This doesn’t even cut the surface of how intertwined she is with the game. It’s obvious to me that Toby places extra emphasis on her character. As I write this I’m forgetting other things and not even fully thinking about the weird route and her dissociation.

IMO she represents the embodiment of the player and player’s mentality of hunting for Easter eggs and glitches. She’s what Kris is supposed to be (in our perspective) and that’s why in the WR she’s the “key” to getting us somewhere.

Noelle is almost.. ALMOST like what Chara said “holding a perverted sentimentality for these imaginary worlds” and considering her life situation, how could she not? She’s holding onto the character haunting the narrative and her past with Kris, Dess, and Asriel because her life is so shitty. She’s in state of dissociation, wants to “leave” however you interpret that, and the only two people she feels she can say no to are slipping away from her and keeping her in the dark if you believe Rudy knight theory (I still can’t deny Rudy is Sus even if he’s not the knight). Queen mentions she wants her to stop looking up sad things on the internet. It’s basically canon Queen represents everyone’s mother so I fully believe Carol shut down the internet. There is also an unused version of her dark world room that has pills near the bed. Keep in mind these aren’t real pills, just things she’s been looking up online.. but I understand why Toby Fox wouldn’t put it in the final product because it would be too on the nose.

I like to think alongside Kris they’re going to represent player’s mentality on both sides in each route How? I’m not sure. I believe the normal route will present a healthier conclusion through Susie but the weird route… idk. How they both get “used up” is beyond me. If you believe file hopping theories I like to think getting used up means that file’s Kris and Noelle get deleted maybe.

Anyways I think Noelle is a key figure in Deltarune and I think she can be used in a lot of theories. Even knight theories all have to involve Noelle somehow. I think Image Friend and Noelle may have some small connection if we take the Spamton sweepstakes seriously. The prophecy itself can include Noelle. Etc etc etc

Also want to throw this out there: with the added patch for Pink’s dialogue in chapter 5. I predict that we will get more image friend stuff and possibly even a reveal in the holiday house if it is a dark world! Just because of the minor connections Noelle has with image friend. I think that’s when the eggs will be “useful” but who knows? It may just be a knight reveal chapter. What do y’all think? Is she going to play a pivotal role in the end or is she a big nothing burger?

This topic stemmed from me rewatching Turning Red and diving into some old controversy about that movie lol.

The controversies around Turning Red reminded me of something I always see brought up time and time again about Noelle. That Noelle’s more masochistic side is obsessive, a fetish, or a character flaw. I imagine these people are children, but somehow I almost always see an adult use this talking point. The frequency of this scenario is pretty concerning.

I think a reason for this reaction is that the media portrayal of teen girls tends to skip the feeling of desire and attraction realistically. People are more used to seeing non-female desire openly acknowledged. I could think of many examples not in Deltarune, but one I have is! The audience reaction to Kris and Asriel’s “How to Draw Your Dragon” book, with the front of the book having an immodest dragon wearing lipstick. In the fandom, this book is played for laughs, leading some fans to make up humor theories about why Kris hasn’t returned the book.

When it comes to Noelle, though, the reaction is the complete opposite. Granted, likely most of these people are either shippers of another ship or don’t like Noelle. Still, it’s concerning to see other people agree.

They always use her website blog from the Spamton Sweepstakes as an example. First of all, Toby Fox himself said anything not in the game isn’t canon, but I also like looking at these blogs for fun, so let’s pretend like it is canon! In the blog, people claim she’s only attracted to the bullying Susie does, hence Noelle only likes Susie for being a bully. Which we all know isn’t true. In chapters 1 or 2, Noelle shows more excitement upon hearing from Kris that Susie is a nice girl. >!During chapter 5’s most recent lake scene, she openly says she likes Susie more now than when Susie was a jerk.!<

Still, Noelle will want to get to know Susie, even if Kris says she’s a jerk, likely because she wants Susie's attention in the only way she's seen Susie give people attention. She even offered Kris a seat swap, but they declined, leading to her desire to bullied by Susie even more.
(I could also talk about how people think Kris enjoyed getting bullied, but that’s another topic)

I think this is being said about Noelle more now, since it’s been disclosed that she has a >!dissociative issue!< with the fact that she loves scary things. Still, this has less to do with her romantic desires and more with her coping mechanisms and her seeking comfort in nostalgia. And Susie is the least nostalgic person in her life, which is why she’s even more intrigued and actively gets out of her comfort zone to be around her.

Regardless, even if Noelle wasn’t a complex character and a regular teen girl, she should have the freedom to express her desires healthily??? Even if that desire isn’t the sweetest most romantic fantasy?? Noelle has never said any of her fantasies to Susie’s face and has never made her uncomfortable with it. In fact, I'd say she’s going about her crush on Susie very normally. She approaches Susie normally offering her help with her project. Anytime Susie makes an initiative, she reciprocates and even asks her friend to help her get to know Susie before that, even in the weird route where it is implied that Noelle takes more of an initiative towards Susie.. Susie doesn’t seem upset about it at all 😂

I’m glad we have this portrayal of Noelle’s crush! I feel like I can relate to it as someone who used to be a young girl and had fan accounts for my favorite female K-pop idols and said even more cringy things about my first girlfriend in high school lol.
Noelle is obviously very chronically online, and Susie fits the type a chronically online girl would like: a bad girl who’s also a delinquent, with whom she would like to ride a motorcycle with 😭

This isn’t something we typically see for young girls in a wlw relationship, and I don’t think Toby Fox should go into why she likes these things because she’s still a little girl. Noelle being a hormonal girl is the least interesting thing about her relationship with Susie. I’m just happy this side of Noelle is being shown and normalized and I don’t think it’s harming anyone.

But how do y'all feel about it? Should this be addressed by Toby Fox, or left as a harmless joke?

I think because of all the discourse surrounding Ralsei right now nobody’s talking about how Ralsei is going to potentially interact with Noelle. I know people are saying conflict is going to happen (i’m sure it will) but this means the chances Ralsei interacts with Noelle is high.
They didn’t interact in Chapter 2 and if you give Ralsei’s Noelle’s tea he says it has a soft and sweet flavor. Also Noelle and Ralsei have multiple lines about each other for people who never interacted.
It’s also interesting that Ralsei has fire magic and Noelle has ice magic.
These are my favorite characters in Deltarune so I’m excited to see this and wonder how it’ll go.
Ralsei x Noelle platonic friends agenda.