u/stoicwomon

I’m an INFJ female. A fairly extroverted one if this makes any difference at all? I find myself weirdly drawn to INTP’s. Anytime I watch something on tv and find myself drawn to a person (which is very rare in general) I google their mbti out of interest and they come up as INTP.

I can’t explain it, so came on here wondering if anyone else posted this question? Then I see that even the flair selection says “INFJ with a question about love”. Which is funny because I’ve never thought about this before, so it’s a thing?

My question is, is this mutual? Do we work well in relationships or is this my Limerence talking? I tend to mostly attract XSTP’s and XNFP’s but I often feel there’s something missing. Intellectually I think? Not so much the emotional depth!

There must be some logical understanding as to why I have this continual attraction to INTP types over every other type.

I have followed this sub for a while now and read the daily continual questions about “the avoidant discard” and why they just disposed of such a strong, wonderful bond.

So as a recovered avoidant woman at 40 with a fair bit of experience (particularly in my 20’s) I will tell you what we go through and why we do care but it’s not the care you think. I am not saying this is ok, I am just stating this is generally what is.

Firstly as I’m sure you all know, avoidant’s are not raised with a healthy version of love. We do know this, we are aware but we don’t ’feel’ this. So we simply accept what is with our family and are there for them either way because we are “forgiving” and we don’t actually feel much toward it all.

Where this does manifest itself is trying to look for that perfect partner to undo and fix everything we experienced as a child! We don’t know that we internalised this to make us feel worthless. Unworthy of love and care so we believe we need to ‘work’ to get this love.
We will often look and act perfect. We will gym, dress well, be charming, funny, cool (cool is a big one) in order to be “perfect enough” to attract the right kind of love - finally.

When we meet someone who just likes us for the show we’ve displayed, we feel seen, we feel valued, understood, and we think we’ve found our soul mate. This is a dopamine hit! This will generally be around the 3-6 month mark. The love bomb stage (we are equally blind sighted by it) and this we relish in because we are addicts to this feeling.

When this feeling slowly wears off, unconsciously our brains thinks “we are not lovable, this person will leave us one day, we must protect ourself at all costs, love isn’t safe”. Especially if we show our real selves (that we’ve also repressed).

Consciously this shows as “he/she is starting to give me the ick. What I adored about them I can no longer tolerate. I feel smothered, this is weird maybe they’re not the right person for me? Maybe someone else is? (There’s usually an unavailable person they have their eyes on for the most part). I feel trapped, I must escape”.

If you notice it’s very rarely about the other person. The fault finding is petty, and 9 times out of 10 we know it is! We don’t blame or hate the partners, we simply think they’re just not right for us. We can’t put our fingers on why and we don’t try to because we are avoiding the truth.

There is no genuine love because we are emotionally unavailable. We do not do slow, consistent. Safe (healthy) boring love, because we do not understand love without pain (or ups and downs) so we try to create what feels familiar. We actually seem psychopaths or a bit BPD in these phases because we are running from feelings even though we feel guilt and shame about how we’ve hurt others.

When one does commit, usually because they’ve realised they need to settle down. Or they do actually like someone and can’t seem to get them out of their head, we start this internal battle. The push pull testing will start. This is where we understand the problem is with us and we are actively working on it but we are triggered by any sign of abandonment or engulfment. We will end the relationship over anything, even cheat to create distance (I didn’t but my ex did this) and we will regret then come back when the anxiety subsided. I think this is the most common stage people stay in for years whilst their partners goes crazy. Rightly so.

If we are with an anxiously attached person at this point we will likely bail and head for the woods to stop the panic attacks. If we are with someone healthy (this is rare) who puts up boundaries, does not chase and remains solid in their sense of self but doesn’t pull away love, this we can often work though. We will be relearning what love is and the effort is real. The care is real but because we don’t trust it or your ability to love us, we will also kept one foot out of the relationship to protect self. We will stash finances away and keep our independence.

IF your avoidant pushes past this - I’m reading your comments below, please understand the word IF here (As usually they push their partner away before this by imagining they aren’t lovable, and oftentimes that needs to happen) but during this time if they realise you do or did in fact love them, and they know they want to receive that love, then they are in for an “awakening”, this is hell.
This is all of their repressed emotions that come back from the depths of their buried consciousness. To you it will be living with a toddler, an immature person. The mask will drop, the real them (depressed, insecure inner child person) comes back. If you leave us at this point we will retract and become more avoidant than ever. If you stay but keep your boundaries strong (I mean what healthy person would stay?) but on the off chance your person is self aware themselves, and you show us that love doesn’t run or withdraw when we show our true selves, that can heal us. Or the most common is we leave, heal and come back (try to) as a new version with genuine apologies and true care. At this point we will likely be the most loyal, caring, supportive partner you could ever ask for.

Most importantly for partner -boundaries are the only way! Strict, solid, loving boundaries.

Ok not all, but a lot of us! I’m not even sure why I’m writing this, I guess I’m just curious.

I’m 40 f. At 18-21 I had a few relationships (didn’t know an oxytocin hit from love back then) so as soon as anything got serious, I freaked out and ended it! I knew something was up then, I was lost and didn’t understand myself. I realised I hurt some good people and I wanted to stop.

So I decided to stay single pretty much through all of my 20’s until my brain figured itself out. I worked, traveled, and just focused on my interests and friendships.

I never really struggled with romantic attention, I guess I’ve always been charismatic with a pretty decent sense of humour. I take care of myself, I probably look like a very confident extrovert who’s got their shit together - but inside, my brain is a puzzle. It never actually sorted itself out, in fact the more I understand the less I understand. I have a depth that I rarely show anyone and for years I always attracted the people who thought I was “cool”, or a “quirky artist” - but I’m most uncool, I’m a huge nerd and I can’t quite seem to convey that to the right people?

At 30 I felt more alone than ever! I started to look at other INFJ’s around me and the three I knew were all older and still single. I didn’t want that. I could also see what their issues were. They were not only complex but also very picky with superficial things, particularly looks!

So I decided to date a guy I knew I’d always clicked with and still found attractive. An istp. I guess he was also a classic ‘cool guy’, that everyone liked but he was also quirky and actually really funny. People tried to pair us up for years so I thought I was safe with him. I agreed to date him then took a one way flight to Asia for three months to make sure we connected not just physically. I thought if he stuck around through those months of conversation only, he was more than just an oxytocin fling.

A month after I returned he proposed. Obviously I freaked out but I also gaslit myself into the fact I was being a commitment phobe and should stop sabotaging my happiness with this perfect guy everyone else loves (and who I’d known for 7 years).
So I accepted. I liked him, he was funny, interesting, smart, attractive…… and turned out he had complex trauma! Which is super common for INFJ’s to end up with 🤦🏼‍♀️ trauma and depth are not the same thing, as it happens.

So, 7 years of that was hell. I worked my ass off to stay committed. I learnt everything I could about complex trauma, abuse and his childhood. I navigated his (severe) ups and downs, his explosions, his drinking, even at times his violence - until I no longer recognised the fun, arty, girl who loved people and loved life when I looked in the mirror. An as it happens, I was even more lonely than ever before!

So I told him I wanted to split, which he responded to by immediately having an affair with a good friend of mine. There was no question about a divorce after that.

Now, I feel back to where I started. But not in a bad way, I feel ok. I get being alone now. I was lonely because I felt misunderstood my whole life, even by myself. But now, I’m just ok with it. I still go out and get attention (usually off 20 something year old xNTx types which is never happening), but for once I understand why those other INFJ’s stayed single. I don’t know if anyone will actually ever understand me, or see me the way I guess I’ve always wanted to be seen. I suppose that’s why I’ve always buried my head in books.

But that’s ok too. I’m fine with being misunderstood. I’ve accepted that those who know me will probably only ever know the smallest percentage of who I am inside and I no longer hope for the day a person will ‘see’ more than that. I think this is where a lot of those INFJ memes ring true for me now.

I guess my question(s) - Is anybody else like this? Have you had a similar experience to me, where you married or dated for loneliness and it backfired, or have you met someone who understands you?

Orr like every other INFJ I know, are you still single?

**Edit. I just want to add (due to the great volume of replies and kind advice) on this, that I absolutely did have fearful anxious attachment. I had emotionally unavailable parents (I think there’s a link to INFJ and this? but that’s for another post). I ran from healthy people, and tried to fix/heal/earn love with potential. I did however love my ex, it wasn’t an escape from singledom, but it was in some essence a trauma bond.
Therapy done, lesson learnt! Spiritually awoke and definitely became emotionally aware after the most excruciating understanding that this situation really is my own doing. Reg flags will no longer look red again, and I now have an internal peace that was missing due to this inner child of mine needing to be “loved” externally.

Ok not all, but a lot of us! I’m not even sure why I’m writing this, I guess I’m just curious.

I’m 40 f. At 18-21 I had a few relationships (didn’t know an oxytocin hit from love back then) so as soon as anything got serious, I freaked out and ended it! I knew something was up then, I was lost and didn’t understand myself. I realised I hurt some good people and I wanted to stop.

So I decided to stay single pretty much through all of my 20’s until my brain figured itself out. I worked, traveled, and just focused on my interests and friendships.

I never really struggled with romantic attention, I guess I’ve always been charismatic with a pretty decent sense of humour. I take care of myself, I probably look like a very confident extrovert who’s got their shit together - but inside, my brain is a puzzle. It never actually sorted itself out, in fact the more I understand the less I understand. I have a depth that I rarely show anyone and for years I always attracted the people who thought I was “cool”, or a “quirky artist” - but I’m most uncool, I’m a huge nerd and I can’t quite seem to convey that to the right people?

At 30 I felt more alone than ever! I started to look at other INFJ’s around me and the three I knew were all older and still single. I didn’t want that. I could also see what their issues were. They were not only complex but also very picky with superficial things, particularly looks!

So I decided to date a guy I knew I’d always clicked with and still found attractive. An istp. I guess he was also a classic ‘cool guy’, that everyone liked but he was also quirky and actually really funny. People tried to pair us up for years so I thought I was safe with him. I agreed to date him then took a one way flight to Asia for three months to make sure we connected not just physically. I thought if he stuck around through those months of conversation only, he was more than just an oxytocin fling.

A month after I returned he proposed. Obviously I freaked out but I also gaslit myself into the fact I was being a commitment phobe and should stop sabotaging my happiness with this perfect guy everyone else loves (and who I’d known for 7 years).
So I accepted. I liked him, he was funny, interesting, smart, attractive…… and turned out he had C-PTSD! Which is super common for INFJ’s to end up with 🤦🏼‍♀️ trauma and depth are not the same thing, as it happens.

So, 7 years of that was hell. I worked my ass off to stay committed. I learnt everything I could about complex trauma, abuse and his childhood. I navigated his (severe) ups and downs, his explosions, his alcoholism, even at times his violence - until I no longer recognised the fun, arty, girl who loved people and loved life when I looked in the mirror. An as it happens, I was even more lonely than ever before!

So I told him I wanted to split, which he responded to by immediately having an affair with a good friend of mine. There was no question about a divorce after that.

Now, I feel back to where I started. But not in a bad way, I feel ok. I get being alone now. I was lonely because I felt misunderstood my whole life, even by myself. But now, I’m just ok with it. I still go out and get attention (usually off 20 something year old xNTx types which is never happening), but for once I understand why those other INFJ’s stayed single. I don’t know if anyone will actually ever understand me, or see me the way I guess I’ve always wanted to be seen. I suppose that’s why I’ve always buried my head in books.

But that’s ok too. I’m fine with being misunderstood. I’ve accepted that those who know me will probably only ever know the smallest percentage of who I am inside and I no longer hope for the day a person will ‘see’ more than that. I think this is where a lot of those INFJ memes ring true for me now.

I guess my question(s) - Is anybody else like this? Have you had a similar experience to me, where you married or dated for loneliness and it backfired, or have you met someone who understands you?

Orr like every other INFJ I know, are you still single?

Not sure why I’m posting this but, there may be something in this for others to address with their RJ.

My ex (soon to be ex husband) suffered badly with RJ. We got married at 30 and I could count on one hand the partners I’d had since I was 17. Obviously this isn’t what causes RJ, but we could never get to the bottom of it.

Fast forward 10 years and during that time I learnt I was with someone who had a tonne of trauma from childhood! At the time he never associated Retroactive jealousy with his childhood, hell we didn’t even know he had abuse because he was enmeshed with his mother and didn’t understand it until he was screaming at me most nights due to his triggers!

What I found interesting was that the jealousy did subsided but the anger grew in other areas. When I finally said I wanted a break from his “episodes” it was actually him who had an affair with my good friend.
So this leads me to believe that retroactive Jealousy isn’t about fear of a partner cheating, not being good enough in bed, wanting the perfect romantic scenario - but rather control of a persons past because they need to be validated and proved important enough. Special enough. Worthy enough.

I think this is rooted in shame (also turns to narcissism if left unchecked). I learnt after he felt ok with my past, he actually had other issues with anything that triggered his shame and worthlessness, which means RJ is nothing to do with sex and all to do with being valuable.

For those who want to heal it, I suggest doing the shadow work Carl Jung mentions, and face that shame of not being good enough, and not needing to control someone’s past to feel worthy of love. I don’t know anyone with RJ who came from a stable childhood - food for thought!

Let me know if I’m shooting near the target with this at least.

I married an ISTP LSI guy nearly 10 year ago, I’m an ENFJ (EIE) female.
He had childhood issues, but was aware of them. We definitely clicked and were friends for 8 years prior. There was always connection and attraction so it made sense to start dating later 20’s. Life was fun an he was super caring, funny, cool….until he would switch on me!!

Like every couple of weeks a new personality would emerge for the day where he would lose his shit and I’d get some self wallowing, self pitying, angry, sometimes violent, always verbally abusive guy. Then he’d block me and do a disappearing act for a day until he came out of it! Often times he would say “sorry for being a nightmare”, but after years I realised he never actually apologised for the specific things he did to hurt me. More of a blanket sorry.

He went to therapy in the end because he knew he had to deal with things. He got better, I got pregnant about year 6 and he was wonderful that whole pregnancy, however, the second I had our daughter he turned into some permanent 🥜 again, but most of the time.

He kept telling me I was crazy, no one liked me, I’m hard work and too demanding (interestingly enough what he liked about me was that I was in-fact very chill and driven so I think pre kid I actually enabled this a lot), anyways I left him hoping he would wake up, sort his drinking out, realise what he had in me and save his family.

He didn’t, he denied everything about his behaviour in the marriage, said I made it up all and that I ended it. Told others I was crazy and went an immediately had an affair with my good friend and his mates wife.

As you can imagine, it’s all been a bit of a head F! At some point I’ll be ready to meet someone else and I read the socionics and it says my particular type EIE works best with LSI - Which I think it does and I work good with ISTP’s generally. We seem to have a natural attraction and mental connection, especially humour that I don’t get with other types!

But, I’m terrified now and think you all have a secret hideaway of scary hidden away for behind closed does. He’s actually the most charming guy in person too, so even if I connect with others, I’m still too scared to trust it!

So my question, is he a rare type? Is this an abusive person who just happens to be ISTP (LSI) or is anger and aggression a common issue these types and I should just avoid at all costs in general?

So we all know the stereotype of an ENFJ is a happy clappy cheerleader trying to heal the world one pat on the back at a time ( ahem ESFJ).

But on the other hand we get called the most manipulative type that ever was. So which are you?

Because someone I am dealing with has pushed me too far. They were physically, verbally, financially and emotionally abusive in ways I shall not elaborate on. All the while I thought this person was a victim of a terrible childhood and many other lies he led me to believe, so (as true ENFJ’s do) we support, we seek to understand, we protect, we heal - until one day out of nowhere we wake up, and we are now successfully pushed to our door slam.

Which I am now at.

I can not explain the terrifying switch that has taken place inside my mind, almost instantly upon realising what I was really dealing with in a person for years.
Now I know in my heart that this person is going to regret having ever met me.

When I say that, it isn’t a threat. There will be no emotional outburst, no violence, no smear campaign. Not even revenge because that’s for the weak.
It is far more terrifying. It is a master plan. A wall, a charm unlike anything this person has ever gotten from me before. Utter dismissal whilst being the enemy that I will keep close to me. This person will have no idea what he’s gotten himself because he will believe he still has access to me, but will received nothing but confusion.

This, I believe is where the darker stereotype of the ENFJ comes into play. For any of you who have accessed this darkness for those few select people, please let me know in the comments. Or if you’ve experienced this dark side of the ENFJ I’d love to hear that too.

Do you ever want a girl makes the first move? Or is that a no no?

For context, I think I’m getting every hint an INTJ guy is into me? But he hasn’t made a move. Whenever I text or communicates he responds straight away, then finds a way to continue the conversation usually using wit and humour - and he generally asks another question even though there’s plenty of exit moments.
If I need anything he offers help, sends me numbers for house or car repairs. He also gives me legal advice when I needed some recently (he’s a barrister) and when I see him he kinda lingers. I’m INFJ, we have a connection, same page, same humour etc - but he hasn’t hinted or even suggested he likes me. Definitely no questions about a date!

Is he waiting for me to make a move or is this in my imagination and this normal behaviour for INTJ’s cause he’s just a decent guy?

Are there any other creative INFJ’s who are stuck in a cycle of needing to be creative to feel alive - versus not feeling alive enough to create? I’ve had this most of my life, I’m (40f) with a creative job and outwardly my life is put together.

But I know I’m also kinda low key depressed because I haven’t truly gone down the path of creating what my soul craves. But I over think and predict that as something I’ll never succeed in (in my idealistic way), so I just stay here in half hope, half defeat trying to be grateful for the life I do have whilst dreaming and burying the life I know I need.

The worst part, if anyone else said this to me I’d have all the answers for them, but towards myself if you give me the same answers, I wouldn’t believe any of them. So I just continue to be stuck in this uncomfortable mid ground of analysis paralysis and meander on through this debilitating existence of monotony.

Outwardly I look to have my life together, no one would ever think to look at me to this is the daily internal battle I live with but I can’t shake.

If you have any advice or success stories for beautify this mindset (any Mbti infact) please feel free to share 🙏

As an INFJ I’m really interested in seeing how similar the only other dominate Ni type is to us. If you’d humour me - this something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. What are my core values?
These are my top 10 values (in order of most importance). I really thought about each of them.

Ive put down 10 to give some ideas on what some are, but if you want to just share a few that’d be great!

1. Truth

2. Authenticity

3. Depth

4. Loyalty

5. Competence

6. Freedom

7. Connection

8. Growth

9. Beauty

10. Responsibility

My life’s Moto would be ‘Live truthfully, think deeply, build something meaningful, and share life with people who are genuine.’

This is something I’ve been thinking about lately. What are my core values?
This is my top 10 values (in order of most importance). I really thought about each of them.

Ive put down 10 to give some ideas on what some are, but if you want to just share a few that’s great! I’m interested in how similar we INFJ’s actually are and how much mbti factors in it.

1. Truth

2. Authenticity

3. Depth

4. Loyalty

5. Competence

6. Freedom

7. Connection

8. Growth

9. Beauty

10. Responsibility

My life’s Moto would be ‘Live truthfully, think deeply, build something meaningful, and share life with people who are genuine.’

Any other INFJ’s just tired? Like not physically, but deep bone, achingly tired in an ancient sense. Like people are going too fast paced and all the beauty from life, connections, love, romance is just flying past and you can’t keep up with any of it?

I’m 40, a kind of young 40 I guess I could say. I still love art, music, travel, history, culture, philosophy/psychology etc etc. but the more I communicate with others, the more I realise there’s nothing there to connect with. Unless I binge watch tv and follow celebrity news from 3 second TikTok clips then I’m not on the same planet with everyone. It’s like I want to be on earth to explore the beauty of so many things (mostly people) but I’m just rushing. Constantly rushing. Connections are bleak.

I even ended my 10 year relationship because he just came home every night from work, drank beer and buried himself in Netflix for hours - every night. I could never understand how he didn’t want to get some life out of his existence. But the more I watch, the more I chat with others, it seems I’m the one who’s odd for not catching up. I’m just exhausted with this soulless living, and I see the next 20/30 years getting 100 times worse.

Are any of you ENFJ’s happily married? If so to which type?
Or are any of you married or jn happy long term relationships with ENFJ’s? I’d like to know which type seems to work best (and actually worst) with ENFJ’s as this is something I feel I am getting wrong over the years.

From INTJ man maybe? This is boggling my mind a bit if I’m honest! Apologies for the length but I’m trying to give context.

There’s an INTJ guy, we met 17 years ago and have stayed in contact in a professional environment monthly. We’ve bumped into one another out on nights out and got on great, but for nearly a decade he’s been in a relationship with a girl that I know he’s exhaustedly bored with (ESTJ).

I was in a long term relationship and became single recently. Me and this guy have always clicked and had a lot in common but it’s been platonic. I’m ENFJ. Lately he’s been telling me how unhappy he is in this relationship. It’s quite often in-fact. He’s also started to text me, asking me about my trips away, or if I’m out that weekend. He’s also recently helped me out with some legal stuff (he’s a lawyer).

I’m not really sure what’s happening and why he’s even contacting me because he’s so unhappy but he’s still with her? Is this typical that you guys do this? He’s mid 30’s, not married, no kids and he owns the house but they do live together - but nothing is technically tying him to her. This has gone on nearly 12 months and the check in’s are becoming more regular.