u/Relative_Bluebird841

I don’t even know where else to ask this, but I’m honestly kind of freaking out.
Has anyone here had any experience with Shane Baldwin? From what I know he is an extremist Mormon (I think he was just excommunicated?) and served significant time in prison for fraud and theft related to an alarm company he had?

My extended family is in Utah and some family members from out of town are currently here visiting. Somehow, while they’re here, some of them got connected with him. I think certain members of my family have been involved with him for a few months now. My family was very, very LDS for most of my life, but over the past few years some of them have gone really hard in the opposite direction. Still LDS but leaning extremist. Instead of believing everything the institutional church says, they’re now getting into all these “hidden truths,” end-times, remnant, secret knowledge, weird blessings, deeper “doctrine” kinds of circles.

Some relatives have met with him recently.
I’ve heard from what happened that Shane identified himself as the earthly embodiment of the Holy Ghost? Like wtf. I haven’t personally heard the recording yet, but I’m told there is audio of it.
I know that sounds unbelievable.
The reason I’m so scared isn’t because I think people can’t have unusual religious beliefs. It’s because I personally spent two years trapped in a high-control cult adjacent group recommended to my mom by her bishop. I was under the impression it was a cool therapeutic community and that I’d be working in gardening and growing my own food. That was not what it was at all. I was unable to leave, they locked up my phone, passport, everything and I was completely unable to leave despite multiple attempts. I know what it feels like to slowly watch people get pulled in, become emotionally dependent on a charismatic leader, and stop trusting the people who love them. It took me years to recover from that experience and I wasn’t even there by choice. Also, I understand it is not uncommon from a psychological perspective for LDS people to get easily pulled into delusions of grandeur and essentially experience spiritual psychosis because of some of the church teachings that are so deeply ingrained in them

Then I started reading about Shane Baldwin and realized he has a publicly documented history of securities fraud, served time in prison, and is now leading this movement centered around prophecy, revelation, and special spiritual authority.
I genuinely feel sick to my stomach.

I’m not trying to start a witch hunt. I’m trying to figure out if anyone here has firsthand experience with him or knows someone who got involved.
Did it get worse over time?
Were there red flags you wish you’d recognized earlier?
Is there anything that actually helped someone before they got in too deep?

Please don’t tell me, “They’re adults; they’ll make their own choices.” I know that. I’m asking because these are people I love, and I’ve lived through coercive control before. If there’s something I can do now that actually has a chance of helping, I want to do it before this gets any further.

If you’ve had direct experience with Shane Baldwin or people in his circle, I’d really appreciate hearing about it.
I genuinely don’t know how to handle this and I am willing to do everything in my power to get this man exposed and back behind bars. Please help

I don’t even know where else to ask this, but I’m honestly kind of freaking out.
Has anyone here had any experience with Shane Baldwin? From what I know he is an extremist Mormon (I think he was just excommunicated?) and served significant time in prison for fraud and theft related to an alarm company he had?

My extended family is in Utah and some family members from out of town are currently here visiting. Somehow, while they’re here, some of them got connected with him. I think certain members of my family have been involved with him for a few months now. My family was very, very LDS for most of my life, but over the past few years some of them have gone really hard in the opposite direction. Still LDS but leaning extremist. Instead of believing everything the institutional church says, they’re now getting into all these “hidden truths,” end-times, remnant, secret knowledge, weird blessings, deeper “doctrine” kinds of circles.

Some relatives have met with him recently.
I’ve heard from what happened that Shane identified himself as the earthly embodiment of the Holy Ghost? Like wtf. I haven’t personally heard the recording yet, but I’m told there is audio of it.
I know that sounds unbelievable.
The reason I’m so scared isn’t because I think people can’t have unusual religious beliefs. It’s because I personally spent two years trapped in a high-control cult adjacent group recommended to my mom by her bishop. I was under the impression it was a cool therapeutic community and that I’d be working in gardening and growing my own food. That was not what it was at all. I was unable to leave, they locked up my phone, passport, everything and I was completely unable to leave despite multiple attempts. I know what it feels like to slowly watch people get pulled in, become emotionally dependent on a charismatic leader, and stop trusting the people who love them. It took me years to recover from that experience and I wasn’t even there by choice. Also, I understand it is not uncommon from a psychological perspective for LDS people to get easily pulled into delusions of grandeur and essentially experience spiritual psychosis because of some of the church teachings that are so deeply ingrained in them

Then I started reading about Shane Baldwin and realized he has a publicly documented history of securities fraud, served time in prison, and is now leading this movement centered around prophecy, revelation, and special spiritual authority.
I genuinely feel sick to my stomach.

I’m not trying to start a witch hunt. I’m trying to figure out if anyone here has firsthand experience with him or knows someone who got involved.
Did it get worse over time?
Were there red flags you wish you’d recognized earlier?
Is there anything that actually helped someone before they got in too deep?

Please don’t tell me, “They’re adults; they’ll make their own choices.” I know that. I’m asking because these are people I love, and I’ve lived through coercive control before. If there’s something I can do now that actually has a chance of helping, I want to do it before this gets any further.

If you’ve had direct experience with Shane Baldwin or people in his circle, I’d really appreciate hearing about it.
I genuinely don’t know how to handle this and I am willing to do everything in my power to get this man exposed and back behind bars. Please help

I’ve done ibogaine twice.

Both experiences were completely different. Both gave me exactly what I needed at the time.

I originally sought it out after a major trauma in my life. Like many people, I wasn’t looking for optimization, biohacking, or a spiritual trophy. I was looking for relief.

I ended up working in neuroscience and had access to quantitative EEG equipment. At the time, there wasn’t much research on how ibogaine affected the brain, so I became curious.

Did it actually change the brain?

I started collecting pre- and post-EEGs on people before and after treatment.

What I found surprised me.

Yes, I saw significant positive changes in many cases. I saw improvements in brain function that were measurable and visible on the scans.
But I also saw something else.

The people who experienced the most dramatic and lasting changes weren’t necessarily the people who had the most intense ibogaine experience.

They were the people who took the 3-month period afterward seriously.

In case after case, that window seemed to matter more than almost anything else.

The people who changed their habits, relationships, routines, thought patterns, sleep, nutrition, and environment often showed remarkable improvements.

The people who went back to doing exactly what they were doing before frequently showed far less change.

My personal opinion is that ibogaine doesn’t “fix” people.

It creates an opportunity.

What happens next is largely up to you.

I’ve been paying attention to the recent conversations about ibogaine becoming more mainstream, including Joe Rogan discussing it publicly and the growing push toward legalization.
I have mixed feelings.

Ibogaine saved my life. I have the utmost respect and love for this medicine. It is sacred. It is intuitive.

But I also don’t love seeing it become commercialized.

I don’t love watching treatment costs climb higher and higher every year.

I don’t love seeing it marketed as the next luxury wellness experience for wealthy people looking to optimize themselves.

This medicine deserves respect.

It’s powerful. It’s demanding. It’s not something to casually check off a bucket list.

And if we’re going to have serious conversations about bringing ibogaine into the mainstream, I think we also need serious conversations about the Bwiti communities who have worked with this medicine for generations.

Their voices should be part of the conversation.

I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I’m posting this because I genuinely want to open up a thoughtful discussion and hear what other people think.

For those who have worked with ibogaine, studied it, facilitated it, or gone through treatment themselves: what have you seen? What concerns you about where this field is headed? What gives you hope?

I’m just someone who has sat with this medicine twice, spent years studying brain changes afterward, and watched the field evolve from the sidelines.

My biggest takeaway is simple:

Ibogaine may open the door.
What you do in the months afterward determines whether you walk through it.

I’ve been down a bit of a rabbit hole lately and I’m curious how many people here have gone past the usual CES Letter / church history phase and into some of the stranger corners of Mormonism.
I’m talking about things like:

Freemasonry and temple symbolism
Joseph Smith’s involvement with folk magic and occult traditions
The Council of Fifty
The Second Anointing
Esoteric interpretations of LDS theology
Salt Lake City symbolism and architecture
Historical narratives that don’t quite match what we were taught growing up
Things that were dismissed as “anti-Mormon lies” that later turned out to be at least partially true

One thing I’ve noticed since moving back to Salt Lake is that I’ve started looking at the city very differently than I did as a teenager. Not necessarily from a “conspiracy” perspective, but from a historical and symbolic one.

The more I learn, the more I find myself wondering whether there are pieces of the story we’re still missing.
For example, I’ve become fascinated by questions like:
What did Joseph Smith actually believe privately versus publicly?
How much of early Mormonism was influenced by Masonry, Hermeticism, folk magic, alchemy, and other esoteric traditions?
Were there teachings, practices, or worldviews that were later changed, sanitized, or abandoned?
At what point did Mormonism become something fundamentally different from what Joseph originally envisioned?

If you believe Brigham Young altered or redirected the movement, where do you think that happened?
I’ve also become curious about some more unconventional historical theories—not because I necessarily believe them, but because I enjoy exploring possibilities and seeing where the evidence leads.

So I’m curious:
For those of you who have gone REALLY deep down the rabbit hole, what was the most surprising thing you found?

What topic completely changed how you viewed Mormonism, Joseph Smith, Utah, Salt Lake City, church leadership, or the history we were taught?
Not looking for simple church-bashing. I’m genuinely interested in hearing from people who spent years researching and connecting dots.
What rabbit hole do you think more people should know about?

I previously posted about this but deleted it because, honestly, it is still very hard for me to talk about. A few people gave helpful advice, and I’m hoping to get some direction again.

My husband was killed in a motor vehicle collision in BC in February 2023, the day before my 27th birthday. We had built our life together in British Columbia, and I was in the final stages of obtaining permanent residency through our marriage. We were planning our future, talking about starting a family, and thought we had our whole lives ahead of us.

Instead, I lost my husband overnight.
In the months that followed, I was trying to navigate ICBC, RCMP communications, the coroner’s process, funeral arrangements, immigration issues, and survivor benefits while barely functioning. Once I got the time-sensitive paperwork submitted, I spent months essentially shut down. Looking back, I realize I was operating in survival mode and just trying to make it through each day.

A year later, when I was finally beginning to get back on my feet, I received a call informing me that the case was going to trial. The driver was ultimately prosecuted and pleaded guilty. That phone call completely blindsided me and brought everything back to the surface.

Fast forward more than three years. I am finally at a point where I have enough stability to go back through everything and ask a question that I never really had the capacity to ask at the time:
Did I miss anything?

Recently, while speaking with ICBC about reimbursement for grief-related treatment expenses, I was told I should also contact WorkSafeBC. My husband worked in construction and was between job sites when he died. He had completed one project and was preparing to relocate for another assignment. We were actively looking at housing related to that upcoming work assignment.

WorkSafeBC has indicated they do not consider the death work-related because he was listed as being on a leave of absence. However, my understanding is that he remained employed by the same company and was in a transition period between projects. This is where I have become confused because different departments seem to be viewing the circumstances differently.

I am American. I no longer live in Canada. I don’t have the resources to hire a lawyer, and I’ve spent the last three years trying to understand a system that is completely foreign to me while also trying to rebuild my life.

I’m not looking to sue anyone. I’m not looking for millions of dollars. I’m simply trying to understand whether there were benefits, survivor supports, appeal rights, or programs that I may not have known about while I was grieving and trying to survive.

If anyone has been through something similar, works in this area, or knows where I should start, I would genuinely appreciate the guidance.
Thank you.

I’m looking for legal information and possible avenues I may not have considered. I’m not looking for emotional support or policy debate, just guidance on what options may still exist.

A few years ago, my husband was killed in a motor vehicle collision in British Columbia. We were both in our 20s and legally married at the time. I was also in the process of obtaining permanent residency through our marriage.

After his death, my immigration process effectively ended, which created complications in accessing certain benefits and navigating Canadian systems as a surviving spouse.

One of the issues I’m still struggling with involves benefits connected to his employment status at the time of the collision. He worked in construction and was in a transition period related to work. My understanding is that his employment classification at that time is now being used as a basis for denying certain survivor-related benefits.

The collision itself was serious enough to result in criminal proceedings and a trial, so this was not a disputed minor incident. My frustration is not with proving that the death occurred, but with how various systems have interpreted the surrounding circumstances.

At this point, I am trying to determine:
Whether there are any remaining avenues to challenge a WorkSafeBC survivor benefit denial years after the fact.
Whether there are review, appeal, fairness, ombudsperson, or tribunal processes that may still be available.
Whether my loss of immigration status following my husband’s death creates any unique considerations that should have been taken into account.
Whether there are lawyers or legal clinics in BC that specialize in unusual fatal-collision, survivor-benefit, or administrative-law cases.
I understand that no one here can provide legal representation, but I would appreciate any guidance on where I should focus my research next.

PSA, this is a very long post that I’ve been working on so I apologize for the length but I wanted to take my time writing this to make it as thorough as I could

I recently moved back to Salt Lake after being away for more than a decade. I grew up here, and honestly, I was shocked by how much the Great Salt Lake has become part of the public conversation.

At first, I didn’t fully understand the issue. I saw the protests, the billboards, the “save water” messaging, the arguments online, and I assumed this was mostly about drought, climate change, and people using too much water at home.

Then I got really into birding.
That is what pulled me into the rabbit hole.
A lot of people don’t realize this, but the Great Salt Lake is one of the most important migratory bird habitats in North America. Around 10–12 million birds and hundreds of species rely on it every year to rest, feed, breed, and survive migration.
This lake is not just “a lake.”
It is a massive living system.
It affects birds, brine shrimp, wetlands, air quality, dust, snow, public health, local economies, and the future of the Wasatch Front.

And after digging into this, one thing became very clear to me:
Regular Utah residents are not the main reason the lake is disappearing.
Yes, we should conserve water. Yes, lawns matter. Yes, outdoor watering matters. But we need to stop pretending this crisis is mainly because ordinary people take showers, do dishes, or drink water.

The much bigger issue is where the water goes before it ever reaches the lake.
From what I’ve found, agriculture is still the largest human-caused water depletion in the Great Salt Lake Basin — around 65%. Municipal and industrial use is now roughly a quarter of human-caused depletion and growing. That means cities, landscaping, industry, development, and projects like the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos data center absolutely matter too.

But the biggest piece of the puzzle is still agriculture — especially alfalfa, hay, and livestock-feed crops.
That doesn’t mean “farmers are evil.” Most farmers are operating inside a system they inherited. But we need to be honest about that system itself, too.

Utah’s water laws come from old Western water-rights structure: “first in time, first in right.” In simple terms, whoever claimed the water first got priority. That made sense in the 1800s when settlers were trying to survive and build farms in the desert.
But now we are living in a totally different reality.
The population has exploded. The climate is changing. The lake is shrinking. Dust and air quality are becoming bigger concerns. Wetlands are disappearing. Wildlife is losing habitat. And yet, a lot of the water system is still built around old priorities that never gave the lake itself a real seat at the table?

That is the part I think people need to understand.
This is not mainly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
This is not mainly an urban vs. rural issue.
This is not mainly a “people are taking too many showers” issue.
This is a broken water-priority issue.

And the public is constantly encouraged to focus on small personal habits while massive water decisions happen through irrigation companies, conservancy districts, state agencies, county commissions, water-rights applications, and development authorities most people have never even heard of.
Some of the systems and agencies people should be paying attention to:
• Utah Division of Water Rights
Handles water-rights applications, transfers, and change applications.
• Utah Division of Water Resources
Helps shape statewide water planning and conservation strategy.
• Office of the Great Salt Lake Commissioner
Coordinates state-level Great Salt Lake recovery strategy.
• Utah Legislature
Can update outdated water laws, conservation funding, and protections for the lake.
• Bear River systems
The Bear River is the largest tributary feeding the Great Salt Lake.
• Weber Basin systems
Another major water system affecting inflow to the lake.
• Jordan River / Utah Lake systems
Also part of the larger Great Salt Lake water picture.
• Irrigation and canal companies
There are hundreds in the Great Salt Lake Basin, and many control water through old water shares and delivery systems.
• Water conservancy districts
These help shape regional water supply, growth, and development decisions.
• Box Elder County officials
Approved the Stratos/data center project.
• MIDA
The Military Installation Development Authority is directly tied to the Stratos project.
• Developers and investors behind Stratos
Including O’Leary Digital and project partners.

And now we have the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos AI data center project entering the picture.
Whether people support or oppose data centers generally, this project should be scrutinized extremely closely because of the scale. It has been described as a massive data center and energy campus in Box Elder County, with huge projected power demands and major infrastructure needs.
This is not just “one building.”
This is a massive development proposal in a water-stressed ecosystem next to one of the most fragile and important saline lake systems in the Western Hemisphere. It makes no sense.

People deserve clear answers:
Where exactly will the water come from?
How much water will be used?
Will any water be transferred from agricultural rights?
What happens during drought years?
What agencies are approving each phase?
What environmental review is being done?
What happens to nearby wetlands and bird habitat?
What happens to air quality?
What happens to utility rates?
What tax incentives are being offered?
Who profits?
Who carries the long-term risk?

And this is where I think public energy needs to go.
Protesting can be powerful. But protesting alone is not enough.

We need people learning the system.
We need people tracking permits.
We need people showing up to county meetings.
We need people watching water-rights applications.
We need people filing public comments.
We need people contacting legislators.
We need people asking direct questions of the agencies and institutions that actually control water decisions.
We need people paying attention to boring meetings and dry documents because that is where the real decisions happen.

For people who have a lot of energy and want to go hard:
Track Box Elder County Commission meetings.
Track MIDA meetings.
Watch for new water-rights applications connected to Stratos.
Follow the Utah Division of Water Rights public notices.
Submit comments when applications open.
Contact state legislators directly.
Ask conservation groups what research or public-records help they need.
Organize people around specific hearings, not just general outrage.
Find out which water rights are being transferred, who owns them, and what the proposed use is.
Ask whether the Great Salt Lake, wetlands, birds, and nearby communities are being considered in each approval step.

For people who care but do not have a ton of time or energy:
Share accurate information.
Talk to friends and family.
Stop making this left vs. right.
Replace some lawn with native plants if you can.
Support groups working on Great Salt Lake protection.
Contact one representative.
Send one email.
Make one phone call.
Show up to one meeting.
Ask one better question.
Small actions matter when they are pointed in the right direction.

One other thing that stuck with me: Utah has laws around rainwater collection. You can collect a limited amount without registering, and more if you register with the state. On paper, that makes sense within a water-rights system. But symbolically, it feels absurd that regular people are told to carefully limit rain barrels while enormous water decisions are happening through agriculture, industry, development, and old water-rights structures most of the public barely understands.
That is the bigger issue.

The public has been trained to focus on personal guilt.
But we need to focus on power, policy, and water allocation.

Again, this does not mean personal conservation is pointless. Outdoor watering, lawns, golf courses, and landscaping absolutely matter. Municipal and industrial depletion is growing. Lawns in a desert should be part of the conversation.
But if we only talk about showers and sprinklers, we miss the bigger machine.

The Great Salt Lake crisis touches everything:
Agriculture.
Alfalfa.
Livestock feed.
Water rights.
Suburban landscaping.
Golf courses.
Industry.
Mineral extraction.
Air quality.
Toxic dust.
Tech expansion.
Population growth.
Bird migration.
Public health.
Western resource politics.
And our relationship with nature.

I am not posting this because I have all the answers.
I’m posting it because I think more people need to start asking better questions.
The lake deserves more than slogans.
The birds deserve more than symbolic concern.
Utah deserves more than being told this is our fault because we shower too long.
This is our home.
And if we want to protect it, we have to follow the water

PSA, this is a very long post that I’ve been working on so I apologize for the length but I wanted to take my time writing this to make it as thorough as I could

I recently moved back to Salt Lake after being away for more than a decade. I grew up here, and honestly, I was shocked by how much the Great Salt Lake has become part of the public conversation.

At first, I didn’t fully understand the issue. I saw the protests, the billboards, the “save water” messaging, the arguments online, and I assumed this was mostly about drought, climate change, and people using too much water at home.

Then I got really into birding.
That is what pulled me into the rabbit hole.
A lot of people don’t realize this, but the Great Salt Lake is one of the most important migratory bird habitats in North America. Around 10–12 million birds and hundreds of species rely on it every year to rest, feed, breed, and survive migration.
This lake is not just “a lake.”
It is a massive living system.
It affects birds, brine shrimp, wetlands, air quality, dust, snow, public health, local economies, and the future of the Wasatch Front.

And after digging into this, one thing became very clear to me:
Regular Utah residents are not the main reason the lake is disappearing.
Yes, we should conserve water. Yes, lawns matter. Yes, outdoor watering matters. But we need to stop pretending this crisis is mainly because ordinary people take showers, do dishes, or drink water.

The much bigger issue is where the water goes before it ever reaches the lake.
From what I’ve found, agriculture is still the largest human-caused water depletion in the Great Salt Lake Basin — around 65%. Municipal and industrial use is now roughly a quarter of human-caused depletion and growing. That means cities, landscaping, industry, development, and projects like the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos data center absolutely matter too.

But the biggest piece of the puzzle is still agriculture — especially alfalfa, hay, and livestock-feed crops.
That doesn’t mean “farmers are evil.” Most farmers are operating inside a system they inherited. But we need to be honest about that system itself, too.

Utah’s water laws come from old Western water-rights structure: “first in time, first in right.” In simple terms, whoever claimed the water first got priority. That made sense in the 1800s when settlers were trying to survive and build farms in the desert.
But now we are living in a totally different reality.
The population has exploded. The climate is changing. The lake is shrinking. Dust and air quality are becoming bigger concerns. Wetlands are disappearing. Wildlife is losing habitat. And yet, a lot of the water system is still built around old priorities that never gave the lake itself a real seat at the table?

That is the part I think people need to understand.
This is not mainly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
This is not mainly an urban vs. rural issue.
This is not mainly a “people are taking too many showers” issue.
This is a broken water-priority issue.

And the public is constantly encouraged to focus on small personal habits while massive water decisions happen through irrigation companies, conservancy districts, state agencies, county commissions, water-rights applications, and development authorities most people have never even heard of.
Some of the systems and agencies people should be paying attention to:
• Utah Division of Water Rights
Handles water-rights applications, transfers, and change applications.
• Utah Division of Water Resources
Helps shape statewide water planning and conservation strategy.
• Office of the Great Salt Lake Commissioner
Coordinates state-level Great Salt Lake recovery strategy.
• Utah Legislature
Can update outdated water laws, conservation funding, and protections for the lake.
• Bear River systems
The Bear River is the largest tributary feeding the Great Salt Lake.
• Weber Basin systems
Another major water system affecting inflow to the lake.
• Jordan River / Utah Lake systems
Also part of the larger Great Salt Lake water picture.
• Irrigation and canal companies
There are hundreds in the Great Salt Lake Basin, and many control water through old water shares and delivery systems.
• Water conservancy districts
These help shape regional water supply, growth, and development decisions.
• Box Elder County officials
Approved the Stratos/data center project.
• MIDA
The Military Installation Development Authority is directly tied to the Stratos project.
• Developers and investors behind Stratos
Including O’Leary Digital and project partners.

And now we have the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos AI data center project entering the picture.
Whether people support or oppose data centers generally, this project should be scrutinized extremely closely because of the scale. It has been described as a massive data center and energy campus in Box Elder County, with huge projected power demands and major infrastructure needs.
This is not just “one building.”
This is a massive development proposal in a water-stressed ecosystem next to one of the most fragile and important saline lake systems in the Western Hemisphere. It makes no sense.

People deserve clear answers:
Where exactly will the water come from?
How much water will be used?
Will any water be transferred from agricultural rights?
What happens during drought years?
What agencies are approving each phase?
What environmental review is being done?
What happens to nearby wetlands and bird habitat?
What happens to air quality?
What happens to utility rates?
What tax incentives are being offered?
Who profits?
Who carries the long-term risk?

And this is where I think public energy needs to go.
Protesting can be powerful. But protesting alone is not enough.

We need people learning the system.
We need people tracking permits.
We need people showing up to county meetings.
We need people watching water-rights applications.
We need people filing public comments.
We need people contacting legislators.
We need people asking direct questions of the agencies and institutions that actually control water decisions.
We need people paying attention to boring meetings and dry documents because that is where the real decisions happen.

For people who have a lot of energy and want to go hard:
Track Box Elder County Commission meetings.
Track MIDA meetings.
Watch for new water-rights applications connected to Stratos.
Follow the Utah Division of Water Rights public notices.
Submit comments when applications open.
Contact state legislators directly.
Ask conservation groups what research or public-records help they need.
Organize people around specific hearings, not just general outrage.
Find out which water rights are being transferred, who owns them, and what the proposed use is.
Ask whether the Great Salt Lake, wetlands, birds, and nearby communities are being considered in each approval step.

For people who care but do not have a ton of time or energy:
Share accurate information.
Talk to friends and family.
Stop making this left vs. right.
Replace some lawn with native plants if you can.
Support groups working on Great Salt Lake protection.
Contact one representative.
Send one email.
Make one phone call.
Show up to one meeting.
Ask one better question.
Small actions matter when they are pointed in the right direction.

One other thing that stuck with me: Utah has laws around rainwater collection. You can collect a limited amount without registering, and more if you register with the state. On paper, that makes sense within a water-rights system. But symbolically, it feels absurd that regular people are told to carefully limit rain barrels while enormous water decisions are happening through agriculture, industry, development, and old water-rights structures most of the public barely understands.
That is the bigger issue.

The public has been trained to focus on personal guilt.
But we need to focus on power, policy, and water allocation.

Again, this does not mean personal conservation is pointless. Outdoor watering, lawns, golf courses, and landscaping absolutely matter. Municipal and industrial depletion is growing. Lawns in a desert should be part of the conversation.
But if we only talk about showers and sprinklers, we miss the bigger machine.

The Great Salt Lake crisis touches everything:
Agriculture.
Alfalfa.
Livestock feed.
Water rights.
Suburban landscaping.
Golf courses.
Industry.
Mineral extraction.
Air quality.
Toxic dust.
Tech expansion.
Population growth.
Bird migration.
Public health.
Western resource politics.
And our relationship with nature.

I am not posting this because I have all the answers.
I’m posting it because I think more people need to start asking better questions.
The lake deserves more than slogans.
The birds deserve more than symbolic concern.
Utah deserves more than being told this is our fault because we shower too long.
This is our home.
And if we want to protect it, we have to follow the water

PSA, this is a very long post that I’ve been working on so I apologize for the length but I wanted to take my time writing this to make it as thorough as I could

I recently moved back to Salt Lake after being away for more than a decade. I grew up here, and honestly, I was shocked by how much the Great Salt Lake has become part of the public conversation.

At first, I didn’t fully understand the issue. I saw the protests, the billboards, the “save water” messaging, the arguments online, and I assumed this was mostly about drought, climate change, and people using too much water at home.

Then I got really into birding.
That is what pulled me into the rabbit hole.
A lot of people don’t realize this, but the Great Salt Lake is one of the most important migratory bird habitats in North America. Around 10–12 million birds and hundreds of species rely on it every year to rest, feed, breed, and survive migration.
This lake is not just “a lake.”
It is a massive living system.
It affects birds, brine shrimp, wetlands, air quality, dust, snow, public health, local economies, and the future of the Wasatch Front.

And after digging into this, one thing became very clear to me:
Regular Utah residents are not the main reason the lake is disappearing.
Yes, we should conserve water. Yes, lawns matter. Yes, outdoor watering matters. But we need to stop pretending this crisis is mainly because ordinary people take showers, do dishes, or drink water.

The much bigger issue is where the water goes before it ever reaches the lake.
From what I’ve found, agriculture is still the largest human-caused water depletion in the Great Salt Lake Basin — around 65%. Municipal and industrial use is now roughly a quarter of human-caused depletion and growing. That means cities, landscaping, industry, development, and projects like the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos data center absolutely matter too.

But the biggest piece of the puzzle is still agriculture — especially alfalfa, hay, and livestock-feed crops.
That doesn’t mean “farmers are evil.” Most farmers are operating inside a system they inherited. But we need to be honest about that system itself, too.

Utah’s water laws come from old Western water-rights structure: “first in time, first in right.” In simple terms, whoever claimed the water first got priority. That made sense in the 1800s when settlers were trying to survive and build farms in the desert.
But now we are living in a totally different reality.
The population has exploded. The climate is changing. The lake is shrinking. Dust and air quality are becoming bigger concerns. Wetlands are disappearing. Wildlife is losing habitat. And yet, a lot of the water system is still built around old priorities that never gave the lake itself a real seat at the table?

That is the part I think people need to understand.
This is not mainly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
This is not mainly an urban vs. rural issue.
This is not mainly a “people are taking too many showers” issue.
This is a broken water-priority issue.

And the public is constantly encouraged to focus on small personal habits while massive water decisions happen through irrigation companies, conservancy districts, state agencies, county commissions, water-rights applications, and development authorities most people have never even heard of.
Some of the systems and agencies people should be paying attention to:
• Utah Division of Water Rights
Handles water-rights applications, transfers, and change applications.
• Utah Division of Water Resources
Helps shape statewide water planning and conservation strategy.
• Office of the Great Salt Lake Commissioner
Coordinates state-level Great Salt Lake recovery strategy.
• Utah Legislature
Can update outdated water laws, conservation funding, and protections for the lake.
• Bear River systems
The Bear River is the largest tributary feeding the Great Salt Lake.
• Weber Basin systems
Another major water system affecting inflow to the lake.
• Jordan River / Utah Lake systems
Also part of the larger Great Salt Lake water picture.
• Irrigation and canal companies
There are hundreds in the Great Salt Lake Basin, and many control water through old water shares and delivery systems.
• Water conservancy districts
These help shape regional water supply, growth, and development decisions.
• Box Elder County officials
Approved the Stratos/data center project.
• MIDA
The Military Installation Development Authority is directly tied to the Stratos project.
• Developers and investors behind Stratos
Including O’Leary Digital and project partners.

And now we have the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos AI data center project entering the picture.
Whether people support or oppose data centers generally, this project should be scrutinized extremely closely because of the scale. It has been described as a massive data center and energy campus in Box Elder County, with huge projected power demands and major infrastructure needs.
This is not just “one building.”
This is a massive development proposal in a water-stressed ecosystem next to one of the most fragile and important saline lake systems in the Western Hemisphere. It makes no sense.

People deserve clear answers:
Where exactly will the water come from?
How much water will be used?
Will any water be transferred from agricultural rights?
What happens during drought years?
What agencies are approving each phase?
What environmental review is being done?
What happens to nearby wetlands and bird habitat?
What happens to air quality?
What happens to utility rates?
What tax incentives are being offered?
Who profits?
Who carries the long-term risk?

And this is where I think public energy needs to go.
Protesting can be powerful. But protesting alone is not enough.

We need people learning the system.
We need people tracking permits.
We need people showing up to county meetings.
We need people watching water-rights applications.
We need people filing public comments.
We need people contacting legislators.
We need people asking direct questions of the agencies and institutions that actually control water decisions.
We need people paying attention to boring meetings and dry documents because that is where the real decisions happen.

For people who have a lot of energy and want to go hard:
Track Box Elder County Commission meetings.
Track MIDA meetings.
Watch for new water-rights applications connected to Stratos.
Follow the Utah Division of Water Rights public notices.
Submit comments when applications open.
Contact state legislators directly.
Ask conservation groups what research or public-records help they need.
Organize people around specific hearings, not just general outrage.
Find out which water rights are being transferred, who owns them, and what the proposed use is.
Ask whether the Great Salt Lake, wetlands, birds, and nearby communities are being considered in each approval step.

For people who care but do not have a ton of time or energy:
Share accurate information.
Talk to friends and family.
Stop making this left vs. right.
Replace some lawn with native plants if you can.
Support groups working on Great Salt Lake protection.
Contact one representative.
Send one email.
Make one phone call.
Show up to one meeting.
Ask one better question.
Small actions matter when they are pointed in the right direction.

One other thing that stuck with me: Utah has laws around rainwater collection. You can collect a limited amount without registering, and more if you register with the state. On paper, that makes sense within a water-rights system. But symbolically, it feels absurd that regular people are told to carefully limit rain barrels while enormous water decisions are happening through agriculture, industry, development, and old water-rights structures most of the public barely understands.
That is the bigger issue.

The public has been trained to focus on personal guilt.
But we need to focus on power, policy, and water allocation.

Again, this does not mean personal conservation is pointless. Outdoor watering, lawns, golf courses, and landscaping absolutely matter. Municipal and industrial depletion is growing. Lawns in a desert should be part of the conversation.
But if we only talk about showers and sprinklers, we miss the bigger machine.

The Great Salt Lake crisis touches everything:
Agriculture.
Alfalfa.
Livestock feed.
Water rights.
Suburban landscaping.
Golf courses.
Industry.
Mineral extraction.
Air quality.
Toxic dust.
Tech expansion.
Population growth.
Bird migration.
Public health.
Western resource politics.
And our relationship with nature.

I am not posting this because I have all the answers.
I’m posting it because I think more people need to start asking better questions.
The lake deserves more than slogans.
The birds deserve more than symbolic concern.
Utah deserves more than being told this is our fault because we shower too long.
This is our home.
And if we want to protect it, we have to follow the water

PSA, this is a very long post that I’ve been working on so I apologize for the length but I wanted to take my time writing this to make it as thorough as I could

I recently moved back to Salt Lake after being away for more than a decade. I grew up here, and honestly, I was shocked by how much the Great Salt Lake has become part of the public conversation.

At first, I didn’t fully understand the issue. I saw the protests, the billboards, the “save water” messaging, the arguments online, and I assumed this was mostly about drought, climate change, and people using too much water at home.

Then I got really into birding.
That is what pulled me into the rabbit hole.
A lot of people don’t realize this, but the Great Salt Lake is one of the most important migratory bird habitats in North America. Around 10–12 million birds and hundreds of species rely on it every year to rest, feed, breed, and survive migration.
This lake is not just “a lake.”
It is a massive living system.
It affects birds, brine shrimp, wetlands, air quality, dust, snow, public health, local economies, and the future of the Wasatch Front.

And after digging into this, one thing became very clear to me:
Regular Utah residents are not the main reason the lake is disappearing.
Yes, we should conserve water. Yes, lawns matter. Yes, outdoor watering matters. But we need to stop pretending this crisis is mainly because ordinary people take showers, do dishes, or drink water.

The much bigger issue is where the water goes before it ever reaches the lake.
From what I’ve found, agriculture is still the largest human-caused water depletion in the Great Salt Lake Basin — around 65%. Municipal and industrial use is now roughly a quarter of human-caused depletion and growing. That means cities, landscaping, industry, development, and projects like the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos data center absolutely matter too.

But the biggest piece of the puzzle is still agriculture — especially alfalfa, hay, and livestock-feed crops.
That doesn’t mean “farmers are evil.” Most farmers are operating inside a system they inherited. But we need to be honest about that system itself, too.

Utah’s water laws come from old Western water-rights structure: “first in time, first in right.” In simple terms, whoever claimed the water first got priority. That made sense in the 1800s when settlers were trying to survive and build farms in the desert.
But now we are living in a totally different reality.
The population has exploded. The climate is changing. The lake is shrinking. Dust and air quality are becoming bigger concerns. Wetlands are disappearing. Wildlife is losing habitat. And yet, a lot of the water system is still built around old priorities that never gave the lake itself a real seat at the table?

That is the part I think people need to understand.
This is not mainly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
This is not mainly an urban vs. rural issue.
This is not mainly a “people are taking too many showers” issue.
This is a broken water-priority issue.

And the public is constantly encouraged to focus on small personal habits while massive water decisions happen through irrigation companies, conservancy districts, state agencies, county commissions, water-rights applications, and development authorities most people have never even heard of.
Some of the systems and agencies people should be paying attention to:
• Utah Division of Water Rights
Handles water-rights applications, transfers, and change applications.
• Utah Division of Water Resources
Helps shape statewide water planning and conservation strategy.
• Office of the Great Salt Lake Commissioner
Coordinates state-level Great Salt Lake recovery strategy.
• Utah Legislature
Can update outdated water laws, conservation funding, and protections for the lake.
• Bear River systems
The Bear River is the largest tributary feeding the Great Salt Lake.
• Weber Basin systems
Another major water system affecting inflow to the lake.
• Jordan River / Utah Lake systems
Also part of the larger Great Salt Lake water picture.
• Irrigation and canal companies
There are hundreds in the Great Salt Lake Basin, and many control water through old water shares and delivery systems.
• Water conservancy districts
These help shape regional water supply, growth, and development decisions.
• Box Elder County officials
Approved the Stratos/data center project.
• MIDA
The Military Installation Development Authority is directly tied to the Stratos project.
• Developers and investors behind Stratos
Including O’Leary Digital and project partners.

And now we have the proposed Box Elder County/Stratos AI data center project entering the picture.
Whether people support or oppose data centers generally, this project should be scrutinized extremely closely because of the scale. It has been described as a massive data center and energy campus in Box Elder County, with huge projected power demands and major infrastructure needs.
This is not just “one building.”
This is a massive development proposal in a water-stressed ecosystem next to one of the most fragile and important saline lake systems in the Western Hemisphere. It makes no sense.

People deserve clear answers:
Where exactly will the water come from?
How much water will be used?
Will any water be transferred from agricultural rights?
What happens during drought years?
What agencies are approving each phase?
What environmental review is being done?
What happens to nearby wetlands and bird habitat?
What happens to air quality?
What happens to utility rates?
What tax incentives are being offered?
Who profits?
Who carries the long-term risk?

And this is where I think public energy needs to go.
Protesting can be powerful. But protesting alone is not enough.

We need people learning the system.
We need people tracking permits.
We need people showing up to county meetings.
We need people watching water-rights applications.
We need people filing public comments.
We need people contacting legislators.
We need people asking direct questions of the agencies and institutions that actually control water decisions.
We need people paying attention to boring meetings and dry documents because that is where the real decisions happen.

For people who have a lot of energy and want to go hard:
Track Box Elder County Commission meetings.
Track MIDA meetings.
Watch for new water-rights applications connected to Stratos.
Follow the Utah Division of Water Rights public notices.
Submit comments when applications open.
Contact state legislators directly.
Ask conservation groups what research or public-records help they need.
Organize people around specific hearings, not just general outrage.
Find out which water rights are being transferred, who owns them, and what the proposed use is.
Ask whether the Great Salt Lake, wetlands, birds, and nearby communities are being considered in each approval step.

For people who care but do not have a ton of time or energy:
Share accurate information.
Talk to friends and family.
Stop making this left vs. right.
Replace some lawn with native plants if you can.
Support groups working on Great Salt Lake protection.
Contact one representative.
Send one email.
Make one phone call.
Show up to one meeting.
Ask one better question.
Small actions matter when they are pointed in the right direction.

One other thing that stuck with me: Utah has laws around rainwater collection. You can collect a limited amount without registering, and more if you register with the state. On paper, that makes sense within a water-rights system. But symbolically, it feels absurd that regular people are told to carefully limit rain barrels while enormous water decisions are happening through agriculture, industry, development, and old water-rights structures most of the public barely understands.
That is the bigger issue.

The public has been trained to focus on personal guilt.
But we need to focus on power, policy, and water allocation.

Again, this does not mean personal conservation is pointless. Outdoor watering, lawns, golf courses, and landscaping absolutely matter. Municipal and industrial depletion is growing. Lawns in a desert should be part of the conversation.
But if we only talk about showers and sprinklers, we miss the bigger machine.

The Great Salt Lake crisis touches everything:
Agriculture.
Alfalfa.
Livestock feed.
Water rights.
Suburban landscaping.
Golf courses.
Industry.
Mineral extraction.
Air quality.
Toxic dust.
Tech expansion.
Population growth.
Bird migration.
Public health.
Western resource politics.
And our relationship with nature.

I am not posting this because I have all the answers.
I’m posting it because I think more people need to start asking better questions.
The lake deserves more than slogans.
The birds deserve more than symbolic concern.
Utah deserves more than being told this is our fault because we shower too long.
This is our home.
And if we want to protect it, we have to follow the water

Not sure how many people here remember it, but they started in a little Sugar House storefront before eventually moving to a bigger location near 9th & 9th. Their handmade chocolates were unreal. The caramel apples, truffles, chocolate-covered everything… it felt like one of those places that made Salt Lake unique.

The funny thing is, even after all these years, I still randomly hear people bring it up and talk about how much they missed these chocolates.

Maybe it’s nostalgia talking, but I honestly don’t feel like I’ve found another chocolate shop around here that’s ever quite filled the void. They don’t even compare.

I heard the owner recently moved back to Utah, which got me wondering…

Am I the only one who misses this place?

And if Xocolate somehow reopened tomorrow, how many of you would go? I want to see if the owner is willing to reopen!

As a former John Volken Academy “student” — Please do your research before sending a loved one there

I recently learned that the John Volken Academy is now operating in Utah, and as someone who personally completed the program at the British Columbia location, I felt compelled to share my experience.

This is not a secondhand story. I attended the program myself.

On the surface, JVA presents itself as a nonprofit life-skills academy and recovery program. The marketing sounds appealing: community, structure, accountability, vocational training, and a chance to rebuild your life.

That is not what I experienced.

When I agreed to attend, I was led to believe I would be entering a therapeutic community where I could leave if I decided it was not the right fit. Upon arrival, my phone, passport, and personal belongings were taken. When I later wanted to leave, it was not a simple process.

The program relied heavily on discipline, public accountability, and punishment-based approaches that I found psychologically harmful. Residents worked long hours in academy-run businesses under the framework of “life skills training.” In my experience, the labor component was a central part of the program.

To be fair, some people do report positive outcomes. I learned things there that have helped me in my life. But I also watched many people leave with significant trauma, and I personally spent years unpacking my experience afterward.

After leaving, I became involved with other former participants who raised concerns about the BC location and pushed for greater government oversight and investigation. Because of that history, I was shocked to discover that the organization is now operating in Utah.

I’m not telling anyone what to think. I’m simply encouraging families, church leaders, probation officers, and anyone considering a referral to do extensive research, speak to former participants from multiple perspectives, and understand exactly what the day-to-day reality of the program looks like before making a decision.

If you are a former participant and would like to share your experience—positive or negative—I would be interested in hearing it.

People deserve informed consent before entering any long-term residential program.

As a former John Volken Academy “student” — Please do your research before sending a loved one there

I recently learned that the John Volken Academy is now operating in Utah, and as someone who personally completed the program at the British Columbia location, I felt compelled to share my experience.

This is not a secondhand story. I attended the program myself.

On the surface, JVA presents itself as a nonprofit life-skills academy and recovery program. The marketing sounds appealing: community, structure, accountability, vocational training, and a chance to rebuild your life.

That is not what I experienced.

When I agreed to attend, I was led to believe I would be entering a therapeutic community where I could leave if I decided it was not the right fit. Upon arrival, my phone, passport, and personal belongings were taken. When I later wanted to leave, it was not a simple process.

The program relied heavily on discipline, public accountability, and punishment-based approaches that I found psychologically harmful. Residents worked long hours in academy-run businesses under the framework of “life skills training.” In my experience, the labor component was a central part of the program.

To be fair, some people do report positive outcomes. I learned things there that have helped me in my life. But I also watched many people leave with significant trauma, and I personally spent years unpacking my experience afterward.

After leaving, I became involved with other former participants who raised concerns about the BC location and pushed for greater government oversight and investigation. Because of that history, I was shocked to discover that the organization is now operating in Utah.

I’m not telling anyone what to think. I’m simply encouraging families, church leaders, probation officers, and anyone considering a referral to do extensive research, speak to former participants from multiple perspectives, and understand exactly what the day-to-day reality of the program looks like before making a decision.

If you are a former participant and would like to share your experience—positive or negative—I would be interested in hearing it.

People deserve informed consent before entering any long-term residential program.

Random nostalgia question for longtime Utah runners:

What were the big powerhouse high school XC/track programs in SLC in the late 90s / early 2000s? I remember East High being huge back and that the longtime coach resigned suddenly then but can barely remember the cause. Great coach

Random nostalgia question for longtime Utah runners:

What were the big powerhouse high school XC/track programs in SLC in the late 90s / early 2000s? I remember East being huge back and that the longtime coach resigned suddenly then but can barely remember the cause. Great coach