u/Significant_Ad_7051

I want to ask both the natalist and anti natalist community

I always try to take the 'scientific' approach so important to see how both minds read the world, even though this question is far more philisophical

I won't comment on anyone's views because that is not a point

The point is to see how my viewpoints compare to both.

List up to 5 strongest points each, no more 👈

I am leaning anti natalism myself. Here is my list:

Aganist

1. I don't want to pass incurable diseases/genes to kid that may make them not functioning to survive here

2. If you don't exist, you have no needs ever. Anything positive here is just ying yang of trying to fight negatives off. So why bother?

3. If you are religious and believe in hell, it makes no sense to gamble your kids' souls. Too many ways to sin or can just be damn for non belief due to not being convinced. Even the Bible said that those who weren't born are best off. Keep your child in the void - no soul punished.

4. The world is clearly hostile place and looking to kil you at every corner Diseases, evil people in power, natural disasters, poverty, poor genetics etc.

5. Even if you get 'perfect life' all is temporary Ignorance is bliss, you have to realise you can't help everybody and someone always will be suffering here Happy people will not necessarily spawn more happy people, you can give everything to your child just to find out he is next nihilst or takes their life for 'no reason'

For life (also means for people who are already here, not just newborns since people misunderstand, reasons not to self terminate)

1. in theory you can get that perfect life, it is possible if lucky enough Minimal diseases, no poverty, no heartbreak, personal and community fulfilment, good looks, peaceful death

2. things can only improve if human race doesn't go extinct - it is only true biological 'purpose' for life to replicate from science pov.

Don't know anymore honestly. I think things like having good house, fulfiling God's work and watching kids grow up happy comes under point 1) So can't include separate

Tips? I am not exactly schizoid, but I am reject introvert weirdo I guess.
I live at home and I am getting old enough I am just tired of my mothers quirks.
Any suggestions how to stop being infantilized by our economy?

Economy is garbage

Where I live they expect you to earn 3x rent minimum, pay 6-12 months upfront to beat like 100 other applicants and hope letting agents likes your face and voice.

Finding a housemate is like dating, good luck when you got schizoid tendencies and people see you as weird. Bonus points if you are unattractive.

Finding a partner to share a house, yeah good luck virgin at 30 lol

I been looking for job for like 6 months and it is total draught, even if you find something it will not meet criteria above, cause it will be shit wage that's all they want to give you nowdays.

I had enough of money saved, but with my luck I got sick and had to spent it all on surgery and healthcare so starting from low savings again.

Most people just move somewhere else and become stealthy.

At the very least, they cut off the number of hostile people or people who will never see you as anything but asab - e.g. hyper religious family.

What about if you are just stuck?

Economy is shit we have people living with parents in 30s

We have disabled people etc.

How you protect your safety personally?

E.g. you have douchebag neighbour who will misgender you daily in front of neighbours, 5 years in. then tell stories to other neighbours, so whole village knows you.

Some people will say no big deal, but places are becoming hostile e.g. UK was first country to charge trans woman for sexual assault not disclosing trans status. Takes only one doucbebag to ruin your life.

Climate IS growing hostile and I think it is not paranoia, but it is important to know how to survive in uncomfortable situations

You can always self isolate, but not everyone is built to handle this lifestyle

Name one most challenging / quality of life worsening feature?

If I have to guess, the majority will.say anhedonia.

I am not schizoid. I have only traits, but persistent anhedonia sounds about right

I don't need to ask for an advantage cause I also can guess being independent socially is pretty good, similar to introverts.

I hate I spent life savings on surgeries and medicines and WILL keep funding everything 100% of my own money till I die if I want to upkeep this.

I hate results that are below average at best, and dysphoria is still super intense, and there was some promise beforehand it would not be.

I hate I sacrificed 5 years of my 20s socially and financially and put myself into poverty in the ever competitive world to fund this.

I hate I thought I would be able to function socially once this is done - I am still crippled, transitioning did not give me any more confidence.

I hate people will keep on suggesting therapy and accepting myself till I die, despite doing 5 years of therapy, cbt, dbt, and taking 5 psychotropic drugs

They don't care if it doesn't work, shut up, and keep doing it is an order fall in line or stfu.. Just boomer mindset equivalent in trans community.

I am tired and tired of losing in everything I put 'hard work' or effort, be it gym, work, or transitioning rewards are always shit.

Yet, regardless, I don't regret doing this. it was the right choice no mistakes were made. Life is lottery and RNG in too many areas for my liking. I lost so do the Nelson laugh 'ha ha'

Theoretically, lack of social emotions or lack of desire to form bonds could make it perfect conditions?

Add trauma and bullying, hopelessness and anhedonia and it creates even more breeding ground

Now, when I talk sociopath and psychopath not necessarily your serial killer ones, e.g. Ted Bundy,

I am talking about the one who don't give a shit about people,

Could be your typical corporate high executive who steps over people

or could be your reclusive hikkimori who is disabled and gave up on life - but is morally sound and not act to harm other people

29f

I had one foreign doctor look at this and said it was okay

I had UK dermatology look at it and also said okay

Gp said okay.

I have been losing hair like crazy for years for example, it got blamed on chronic stress (CTE) and androgenic alopecia (female pattern loss)

13.7 pmol/l. Range 12.00-22.00. For free t4

1.9 miu/l. Range. 0.27 - 4.20. For TSH

They did not wanna measure t3 cause everything in 'range' Tsh ranges looks incredibly low and is borderline t4 really that good?

I got strongest treatment for aga offered cause I am infertile (dutasteride)

Doctor said to take 1.5mg oral minoxidil as well.

Is it ever possible to get away with just anti androgen?

I kinda don't want to take minoxidil cause of side effects 😕

And fact only other alternative is applying topical for rest of your life I assume?

Then if you stop shedding will be vicious.

I have only been on dutasteride for 2 months, but I don't see shedding stopping yet.

My thoughts were only to add minoxidil if dutasteride works in the first place

I don't understand what benefits there are, at most, you will be given more talking therapy.

I am tired of talking therapies done so for 5 yrs for other things and they were the least helpful treatment for me.

Talking therapies -> drugs/medicines -> other practical solutions e.g. getting money

One benefit it had was not being 'annoying' to friends, but I don't have friends now, so I don't need to vent to their faces.

I also have many mental health labels already so don't know whatI having another one would even do.

I think over years I am more borderline schizoid, but still introverted just closer to schizoid spectrum.

How will that affect my chances of being taken even less seriously for physical symptoms
Looks like both Dermatologist and Endocrinologist really want to push everything to psychological cause.

Looks like CTE will give them reason to say everything is from stress.

Now personally I am growing very unsure if I have hypercortisolism or not, because testing so far is super 50/50 and 3 doctors already concluded I don't have it.
I just don't want to get hypochondriac label (I already have EUPD label) if shit hits the fan later.
Still endocrinologist have no idea why I have those symptoms, they said 'most likely psychological as no physical evidence or biochemistry evidence supports diagnosis'

Endocrinologist decided to rule out hipercortisolism based on:

-No primary symptoms like hump, obesity, stretch mark
-48h dex came back suppresed
-private pituitary MRI found no tumour
-mental health diagnoses SAD, GAD, EUPD traits or disorder, MDD

For cushings:

-secondary symptoms still present to this day (e.g. isomnia, brain fog, severe hair loss, hirsutism, joint and muscle pains, hypertension, memory loss) for 3 yrs
-biochemistry had elevated am, pm cortisol blood
-slightly elevated 24h urine
-not suppressed 24h overnight dex

I guessed those before derm said those.

Any tips on how to recover from this, been shedding nonstop 3 years, and my hair is super thin now?

dermatologist recommended

Minoxidil and dutasteride ( cause infertile)

Anyway, I can get away with not using minoxidil?

I don't like how oral can make grow hair everywhere. I already have hirsutism

Should I opt for topical?

It does sound super annoying having to foam hair every day for life if your mental health is already low staying consistent and all.than take some pill

It claims if you end up transitioning you will be better off and self harm will reduce regardless if you pass or other. circumstances

It is kind of like cancer treatment it either works or... sorry you get to die I guess cause we haven't thought of plan B

I don't think that is completely true, what is supposed to be plan B in science.

Repress?

Conversion therapy? Standard therapy? You are out of luck no plan B available?

We see so many people suffering cause of genetics or other factors that it seems dishonest to say transitioning is only treatment even if it is obvious someone need to be read as cis and everything else is just fail to reduce dysphoria.

You see that 25% - 50% with great results from medicines and surgeries and supportive environment yeah!

You see that 6 year non passer recluse staying in house and never going outside as they developed bdd and fear of getting assaulted cause they got crippling dysphoria?

Um yeah, but they are better off cause science said so and clearly it is impossible for them to not be better off than before and sucidial thoughts must have decreased just by virtue of being on hrt.

If transitioning is best treatment available what you even do with rest of cohort who doesn't end up finding relief? Lifelong therapy? Forced detransition? Grant for assisted dying? We leave them fuck alone and don't care?

Should I drop them? In theory they are pretty qualified google dr.n.med in andrology/endocrinology and dr.n.med internist specialist

Didn't give me reasons why, I assume they work with outdated stuff
Poland still uses ICD 10 instead ICD 11
Offered me spironolactone instead bicalutamide

I showed them study if they are worried about liver toxicity
https://profiles.wustl.edu/en/publications/bicalutamide-does-not-raise-transaminases-clinically-significantl/#:\~:text=Secondary%20outcomes%20included%20%25%20individuals%20with%20ALT,or%20no%20agent%20in%20addition%20to%20estradiol.

It is not like cyproterone is risk free for liver, especially long term use

I used cyproterone for 4.5 yrs
and have to say my results been pretty shitty - no a cup breast growth, no significant fat redistribution, no upper muscle loss (still got biceps when tense and I sat on my ass since 2019 without gym)

I really think I may be sensitive to androgens cause I have alopecia now
despite low testosterone, body hair is still thick in areas and grows relatively quick

Suggestions?

here is my main post r/Drop or keep endocrinologist? I saw couple red flags already : r/honesttransgender

I am sceptical my thyroid is healthy

Tsh looks alright, but T4?

Thyroid Function Test

Test Result Reference Range

Plasma TSH level 1.9 mIU/L 0.27–4.20 mIU/L

Plasma free T4 level 13.7 pmol/L 12.00–22.00 pmol/L

I have many problems with health and dozen of endocrinologist and gps shrugging hands or telling me to go to psychiatrist for diagnostics

Can't pinpoint what is wrong

Posting rest of results and symptoms below in comments

They told me bicalutamide is not safe drug - didn't say why
yet are okay for me to take cyproterone so that made me question everything

I don't want to tell whole story, but I went abroad just to see them cause where I live no one knows shit about trans people and UK is garbage for healthcare in general right now.

1. Had high cortisol and high prolactin for years, so we tested for hypercortisolism and she excluded that
   I accepted reluctantly cause biochemistry was kind of mixed 50/50 for and aganist

2. I went there cause I kind of had below average hrt results over 4.5yrs of hrt and was showing androgenic problems despite low T like alopecia progessing or no loss in upper body muscle and no fat restributiong (including less than A cup growth)

she mentioned might be androgen sensitivity so not sure why she woukld offer spironolactone instead bicalutamide to deal with that

Does not want to give dutasteride until go to dermatology to check why I got like 80% hair loss, that's okay.
However, why she would be reluctant to try it out for other stuff if estrogen + anti androgen protocol is not optimal alone for me?

Another red flag is she can't tell me what is her suspected diagnosis for my symptoms, she just said saw nothing from endocrinology side
despite DHEAS being elevated and IGF-1 by 10%
She don't think it is acromegaly or anything endocrinological per physical examination - but hasn't excluded it.

She also told me to go to psychiatrist.
I despise NHS psychiatry and don't want to go back fuck them, but I will admit they did diagnose me with SAD, MDD, GAD, EUPD traits or full disorder so yeah.
Once I declined DBT they told me I am hopeless and to fuck off.
Been coping alone since 2023.

My symptoms are:
-Excessive sweating over whole body
-Coonstant light/moderate pressure or headaches in forehead area
-My stool is never solid always liquidy of some sort
-Developed hypertension
-Wake up between 1-5am at night or get full sleep, but feel unrested
-Hair loss past 3 years lost bra length thick hair and now barely thin spider strands touching shoulders and neck
-Constant fatigue and low energy
-Apetite changes, like I want to eat - but don't want to cook
-Pains in the muscles, especially in lower legs and lower back
-I feel like my face is changing nose, forehead, and chin
getting longer and wider

She is on paper well educated
So many different people from different countries here
so just google Dr.n.med in Andrology/Endocrinology and Dr.n.med as Internist specialist

I am poor though and don't want to waste money and health on bullshit
already UK makes me pay for everything basic like bloods.

Instead been told to go to psychiatrist as part of diagnostics and they can't diagnose exactly what is causing my symptoms

I hate nhs psychiatry and can't afford private.

I had 1 slightly elevated urine 1 elevated am cortisol serum 1 elevated pm serum
1 failed suppressed overnight dexamethasone

They excluded by supressed 48h dexamethasone
No tumour found on mri
No classical symnptoms like obesity, hump or stretch marks

I keep declining and both NHS and private so far proving equally worthless