Hi, I’m new to this community. I’ve read a lot about covert narcissists, but I still have some questions because I want to hear about other people’s experiences. I’m also currently dating a guy who might be a covert narcissist, although he has never been medically diagnosed, so I can’t say for sure.

What signs should I look for in a partner? Since covert narcissists are usually more subtle than grandiose narcissists, I find it harder to recognize the behavior. What are the most common traits or patterns you experienced?

Also, how do you heal while being in a relationship like this? I still live with him, and I want to leave, but the idea of moving out while also dealing with heartbreak is stressing me out so much. I don’t know what the healthiest way is to handle this situation, or if I should try to move on slowly first.

Thank you 🤍

Something I couldn't explain for a long time:

I knew what was happening to me. I had named it. I understood the patterns.

And I still couldn't leave.

Not because I didn't see the harm. But because I also saw the good. The way he showed up to the hospital without being called. The coffee every morning, exactly right, for seven years. The encouragement that was genuinely real.

And those green flags — the real ones — made everything harder. Because every time I tried to leave, some part of me said: but what about the hospital? But what about the coffee?

As if the good things were evidence that the harmful things weren't the real him.

I've started to understand that both can be real without one canceling the other. That good is not the same as safe.

Has anyone else had to grieve the green flags — the things that were genuinely good — as part of leaving?

I discovered three months ago that my ex is a compulsive liar. He had been lying to me for years about a little bit of everything, but I discovered two big lies he had been telling me for years (lying about his finances being the biggest one) and I gave him an ultimatum. Go to therapy and address the lying issue or I couldn’t be with him.

He told me he “needed to think about it” and SIX WEEKS later came back and told me he “doesn’t think it’s right for us to be together if we want to change each other”.

I guess I feel stupid at how dumbfounded I feel. We were together for eight years and I never thought when faced with the decision to go to therapy or lose me forever he would choose losing me forever. I had no idea all this time just how disposable I was to him and I’m completely numb and devastated. It feels like a bad dream.

I pray every night someone has the power to hurt hm! Even if it causes 1% of the pain he as dished out. Why why do they always get to win???

my husband (39m) claims that god told him to fast and he's 4 days into it, only drinking water with LMNT electrolytes and told me yesterday he plans to fast for 40 days. i freaked out, worried that it would harm his body which isn't as young as it used to be and had previously made him promise me that if it affects his concentration, he would quit. he drives a semi truck. apparently he knew he wanted the fast to be 40 days on day one and only told me on the 4th day because he was afraid how i would react. i laid into him; not telling me was a lie of ommission and puts not only him at risk but my daughter and i who travel in the truck with him. for all i know he could blackout while driving from not eating and that was extremely dangerous. to appease me he and i went to a clinic yesterday to get bloodwork to make sure he isn't damaging his body and the results come back in a few days. he fully believes god told him to do this and that to stop he has to choose between me and his faith. i've tried to compromise with him but i'm still worried and upset that he's taking a risk and dismissing that it could be harmful because he has faith that god wouldn't put him in harm's way. i'm not religious but every time he talks about god and that god talks to him makes me worry about religious psychosis. i want to be supportive but i can't get past the concern i feel. how do i handle this? any advice is appreciated.

Please help with grey rocking… I feel like I do well and it’s still not enough. My husband just flips out because I don’t give him any emotions, I’m a robot, I just shut down now. He told me I was worse than a child tonight because I wouldn’t look at him when he was belittling me. How do you push through?

All for stupid reasons. He wasn’t watching our kids, instead scrolling on his phone, which caused a lamp to break, which pissed him off. I asked too any questions about why he’s going to his sisters move in meeting- her dad is going, why the heck does my husband have to go? Probably to get out of child care. I ask questions at the wrong time and overwhelm him. I don’t ask enough questions. I use the wrong tone of voice, I don’t listen or communicate well. It always my fucking fault and I just don’t know what to do. I know leaving is the answer, but I can’t. I am going to start counseling though. Which he says is long over due because my anxiety is out of control and I act like I’m losing it all the time. Maybe because he’s the one who causes my stress?!

I was literally on a group call and she was chatting with me and others with such vibrancy. when I followed up for one on one call, one word answers….long silence….closed doors…. I left the call feeling strange and confused….

Welcome to the twilight. Is this the same person? When this question brought up, she states that she is different with me because I see the real her, she doesn’t feel she has to ‘mask’ with me.

‘ What - you wish I was different?’ She asks, as if by me having a problem with this experience of her, I’m wrong.

this silent, ‘beg for it’ face as I like to call it, gives nothing but expects everything. Even mentions of love have a whiplash.

I greatly don't want to go into details, but I spent nearly 3 years in a Narc/Abusive relationship. It wasn't marriage, but he was close to trapping me before he decided he was bored of me, and that I was figuring out his patterns.

The healing process has been hard, and after some therapy, exposure, and letting myself back in the world, I have found myself in a new yet wonderful relationship with a man who was my friend and has turned into something so special to me.

What I didn't realize is that stepping back into this is absolutely terrifying

He is so patient with me. He was by my side after the split with my former partner and witnessed the after math (stalking, trying to manipulate me to come back, cheating, panic attacks, police reports, stealing pets, etc...) and he has never once held it against me. He just ask that I communicate when i'm scared or confused or hurting.

I do

But I didn't realize how far the damage ran. How even when I know this man, who has proven himself over and over again to be safe, and is moving unapologeticcally at my pace, my brain stills tells me i'm wrong. I feel like i'm not enough. That i'm not deserving and I know, I know, this is because my brain had gotten so used to being not enough. I admit that i'm terrified I will break such a good thing because i'm scared. When i'm around him, the pain melts away and I feel like i'm enough. He takes care of me and I don't know how to accept that. How to accept that I can let someone buy me gifts and it's not a means to an end or manipulation. That intimacy is not painful, or for his pleasure only, or forced. That being by my side isn't a burden, and my tears aren't annoying. That I can laugh and game with friends and know my microphone won't be slammed in my face, or a knuckle dug into my thigh because i'm 'being too loud'

How do I accept it? I want to breathe because I know i'm safe, because I have no doubts about this man. But how to you expose yourself? Let someone safely take care of you while maintaining that independence that seemingly saved you once you pulled through? What helped you all?

Writing this from a hotel somewhere FAR away from my abuser after months of nightmare fuel life. I went ahead and posted about them to a few places over time here, but I just want to say:

If your cat is only screaming around this person, in their home with them, and then you leave, and it settles, then maybe that is an indicator. Please listen to your animals. They know a lot. I wish I had before.

Being on the other side is so liberating. I have new challenges ahead. You CAN escape. It's possible. After I left, she tried to pretend to lose 10 years of memories and use my old nickname and act like someone had killed me. Weird as fuck. They will be weird when you leave, be prepared for that. I took myself and the cat first, then let my friends help with the rest. Please trust your friends, too, if they're good people. I wish I had sooner.

I am about three months separated from my soon to be nEx, and our divorce will be final in a couple of weeks. Kids (3, 5, and 8) are doing great with a 50/50 split, and I’m thrilled with my independence, however, reasonably stressed with navigating adult/mom-of-three life and selling/buying of real estate without a partner. At any rate—

nEx was always the covert, Jekyll and Hyde type. Generally uptight and a dick around new people, then eventually adored by the few he chose to befriend. In the same vein, our dating life was in a vacuum, not at all social, and he roped me in good. Told me his first wife ‘abandoned’ him in favor of a life teaching yoga on the beach. He didn’t have any friends—told me they were all hers (they relocated together to her home state) and she got them in the split. There were a handful of meltdowns and overreactions that I attributed to abandonment trauma and some emotional immaturity, but I decided he was overall dreamy with a couple flaws, and I plowed the path to a wedding within a couple of years.

Then came the occasional ‘below the belt’ insults. The emotional manipulation and cruelty in conflict. The verbal assault. The guilt-laden prioritization of his needs and preferences over mine. The beratement out of nowhere. With a few intense trauma bond cycles a year, three kids, and two demanding careers (with his requiring frequent travel), I became mostly numb and silent in our 9 year marriage. But at the time, I genuinely thought that was how all tired moms/wives had to operate. I thought our marriage was fairly normal and my exhaustion was my own problem.

Finally got to a point of conflict wherein HE told ME divorce was our best option. I didn’t love him enough. I never showed appreciation or affection. And my eye rolling and resistance to and dismissal of those claims was, for him, death by a thousand cuts. We were young enough to go out and find someone to fill our respective needs, he said. Let’s pull the ripcord, he said. I didn’t want to. I wanted to dig deep and revive the healthy love we once had. I still wanted a happy life with him. “Can’t we do counseling??” He refused. He was above it.

Then after I vented to some girlfriends, one of them (at the start of her own divorce) clued me in: “This is not right. This is not how genuine trust and partnership works. This is not standard conflict that all marriages endure. This is toxic. This is a pattern. And I bet he’s having an affair.” “AN AFFAIR?! No way. Not him. He can be mean, but he’s the most loyal guy on Earth.” Right??

I googled a term she used—manipulative distortion—and … cue my plunge into the rabbit hole of covert narcissism. Cue my SHOCK in learning about the pathology that described my husband to a tee. Cue the horror of feeling duped and used and abused for 9 years and not knowing it.

I was onto him. The conflict continued, and I watched him play every card in the covert narc book. I resisted his manipulations, and he was surprised and confused: why isn’t she playing the game anymore?? I was angry and tough and resistant, and he didn’t know how to handle it. He quickly pivoted back to asserting our marriage needed to end, and he let me down in a loving, gentle, award-winning performance of care and empathy.

And then my suspicions bubbled over the surface. The smell of deception was too thick. An alarm in my nervous system was triggered. And I asked to see his phone.

The Recently Deleted Photos folder was locked. And he refused to unlock it. And when I briefly left the room, he permanently deleted its contents. He claimed no affair. No girl or girls on the side. No cheating. Finally, the next morning, he admitted: porn. Penises, in fact. He’d gotten into porn, and ejaculating penises were his fetish. “Well are you gay???” “No, I’m not gay! I don’t like guys! I guess I just like penises, and I was ashamed of it.” I was relieved. Ok, some truth. I can handle this truth. But wait—why were there selfies in his camera roll? I asked to see his phone again. Hmmm. Why are the selfies gone now? After a few hours, he finally admitted: he got on an app. A sex app (Feeld). To meet men. To see if he liked them. “But I only talked to one! I couldn’t do it. I was disgusted. It totally confirmed I’m not gay. Anyway, WHEW I’m so relieved. And I think we can work through this. I think we should.”

He didn’t know it at the time, and I couldn’t confirm it because I knew I was in shock, but I was done. Never in a million years did I think his emotional immaturity, his covert narcissistic tendencies, could result in lies and infidelity. This was the end. The final scene implosion.

Fast forward to my learning that he downloaded the app six months prior and was still taking selfies when I busted him. Fast forward to, upon realizing I was now ready for divorce, him blaming me for it all—for withholding love, affection, and sex and driving him to question his own value and identity. Fast forward to, a couple months later, my receiving a goodnight text from his ex-wife’s iCloud account, quickly unsent. A message FROM HIM with his ex-wife’s account as the sender. Was he toggling between accounts? Using his ex-wife’s for his porn and app activity?? I don’t know. I’ll never know. Finally, fast forward to my calling his ex-wife, whom I’d never seen or met in any capacity, and learning that she didn’t ‘get into yoga.’ She left a manipulative, abusive, and toxic marriage. Despite agonizing confusion and fear, she chose to escape it.

And so have I. But the reason I’m writing/posting this is to ask: What do you all make of what happened? Of what I went through. Was it that bad? Was it truly a crazy, traumatic mind fuck, or was it just a complex situation? I am not having second thoughts or feeling regret, but I do lose sight of the objective reality of it all, and I definitely find myself making that mental check frequently: I HAD to end it, right? There was no way I could have ever gotten to a place of love and respect ever again, right? I had to turn my kids’ and my own life upside down because there was no other way to move forward, right? I will in fact be better off and safer and healthier without him. Right??

It's like no fail. He threatens to unalive himself. And he goes into a spiral. I have begged and pleaded for change and somehow.. I'm the person at fault? I have tried every avenue and right now.. I'm just fucking exhausted. I still care about him and love him. But the last time I tried to get a marriage counselor.. He threw a gigantic tantrum the day before which bled into the next day when the appointment was and it ended up cancelled. I just.. I can't anymore. I can't keep listening to him insult me, accuse me, say angry mean things about our kids.. Put all of the blame on me.

Yet I'm heartless for wanting out. I'm soulless because to him I'm his everything and I must have never loved him if I am even slightly thinking of no longer being with him.

I tried to give him a hundred chances over - he is older and has been trying to get a job but with not having a job for almost 10 years.. It's a little hard. He recently has started to randomly clean.. But he announces it each time he does it and he does the same for coffee too now. But he acts like making coffee was a action worthy of reward instead of something I did everyday and never was like "hey look I made coffee".. I'm just done. And I don't want to make him homeless and I don't want him to unalive himself. So I feel stuck. And I feel alone. And I feel anxiety because I am worried I will never see a day where I can go somewhere and not be accused of cheating..

Also I am too nervous to ever get back into a place with him because I have already told him.. "what's to stop you from going back to breaking things and being really mean again?".. He completely skipped over it.

Sorry just.. Well a large rant about being stuck and lonely ​

Its gonna be a long post, sorry in advance.

Been with my (28) husband(28) for over a decade and married for 5 years. We are two completely different people in terms of our interests and preferences in life. I like living the daytime whereas he likes to live at night, I like relaxing poolside holidays and he finds them boring, he likes camping and I find camping unbearably unpleasent. I enjoy simple activities such as going to concerts, theaters, cafes but he doesn't. He either likes to go camping and hunting or stay at home and play video games all night long. We are definitely incompatible.

I love him more than life itself. I know he loves me too. But differently. Being right is always more important than me. He knows the best, he does the best, he is always right. Our values ideas and boundaries differ greatly. But we rarely fight, we get along pretty well. He is my best friend. Was. We used to talk and gossip and have fun until the sunrise. He used to be happy and excited to see me when I got home. Now he always camplains about how tired he is. He gets home earlier than me, and I often find him sleeping when i get home. He is not interested how my days are going. He doesn't initiate intimacy nearly half as much as I do. He doesn't initiate intimacy the way I would like... no actual foreplay, straight forward to oral. I told him that i would like to go on a romantic date, talk about the things that are not economy or politics, maybe go to a concert and that i miss foreplay. I told him these a couple of times, his response was a nightmare each time. He says things like we are not young anymore, couples like us live this way, we shouldnt be saying everything that annoys us, talking about promlems never helps and he never tells me what annoys him about me, he doesnt want to change. He never changed the way he initiates intimacy as well.

We rarely fight but when we do, even about the silliest thing, he gets angry and dare to speak about seperation. The first time he pronounced the word "divorce" in a very silly fight my heart almost stopped. The second time, I had stomach cramps all day. The third time, I started to shake uncontrollably.

I caught porn in his phone (this is basically cheating for me), he denied jerking off to other girls, even though i knew the truth when he spoke about divorce, I shut up and let it go. I didn't actually and have been suffering since that day but I just do not talk about it. The idea of a life without him used to terrify me. I was scared to even have a debate for a very long time, as it might result in a fight and he would get angry and leave me. His big reactions finally made me numb to the idea of divorce. I used to always ask for a cool off, try to calm him down because he says things that hurt me irreversibly. But now I dont even care. I used to send him spicy pics when we are at work or away from each other, but his poor reactions to them in addition to the porn issue made me stop trying. There is a saying in my native language: Being afraid to be killed constantly is ten times harder than being actually killed.

Now, he wants to have children. I do not. Particularly in this situation. I dont want to take full responsibility of a child while plays video games up until mornings and sleeps through the days. I dont want a time restriction for sex, we have all the time in the world and I still get no foreplay or the frequency I'd like. I do not want to fear from getting divorce again. I am not even sure if i will want kids ever. And he says he cannot do this life without kids. Obviously we had fights. And yes, he dared to speak about divorce again.

I seek help from a therapist. He suggested couples counseling. We met twice for therapy with him, I met him 4 times by myself. He suspects that my husbands actions are in the range of narcissism, he has zero empathy on a scale of a hundred. So he stopped seeing us and advice me to find a therapist specialized in section 2. I learnt that my husband also sees another therapist just for himself and he suggested that we do not talk about kids now as the wounds from our previous figh (which resulted in me taking off my wedding ring thanks to my husband asking for divorce and changed his mind in 3 hours) are still fresh. Now we live at peace and quiet with all the unspoken things are silently squishing us.

I doubt myself a lot. Does this happen to every relationship? Is this the best that I can have? Is it normal? When we do something together we still have fun, at least I do. Can we do things together more often, will we? Can things change? He says he is not gonna change but he doesnt want an instant divorce either, what does that mean?

I feel lost and confused.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Methodology: Insights from 2 Million Minutes of Conversation

This timeline was not built from a textbook. It is the result of a massive data-mapping project, analyzing over 2 million minutes of monthly peer-support conversations from survivors of narcissistic relationships.

When you analyze thousands of hours of raw, unfiltered human experiences, patterns emerge. We noticed that regardless of age, gender, or background, the journey from being "trapped" to being "free" follows five distinct psychological stations. We’ve distilled these patterns into a map to help you understand where you are, why you feel this way, and what to expect next.

Phase 1: The Cognitive Dissonance (The Psychological Fog)

This is the "investigative" phase, where your brain is working overtime to solve a puzzle that has no logic. You are trying to reconcile the person you fell in love with (the "soulmate") with the person who is currently hurting you.

• The Internal Conflict: You find yourself saying, "He/She can be so cruel, but you didn't see how they treated me when we first met." At the same time, another question keeps looping underneath it all: “Is it me?” You wonder if you’re too sensitive, overreacting, or somehow causing the problem, even when something doesn’t feel right.
• Real-Life Example: You spend hours scrolling through old texts or photos, trying to find "proof" that the person you loved still exists. When they explode at you over a minor detail-like the way you parked the car-you find yourself apologizing just to keep the peace, even though you did nothing wrong.
• The Data Insight: In this stage, survivors use the word "But" more than any other. It is a constant tug-of-war between reality and hope.

Phase 2: The Shattering (Grieving the Fantasy)

The "Aha!" moment in a narcissistic relationship isn't usually a happy one. It’s the brutal realization that the person is not going to change because they don't think they have a problem.

• The Internal Conflict: A deep, hollow sense of betrayal. It’s not just about the lies; it’s about the realization that the future you planned was a script they wrote to control you.
• Real-Life Example: You finally stop arguing. When they start a fight, you just sit there in silence because you realize that explaining your feelings is like trying to describe color to someone who refuses to open their eyes. You cry for the "wasted years”, but this grief is actually the beginning of your freedom.
• The Data Insight: This is where the "Trauma Bond" is most visible. Like a physical addiction, your body craves the "highs" of their rare moments of kindness to numb the "lows" of the abuse.

Phase 3: The Detox (Strategic Withdrawal)

This is the most emotionally difficult and vulnerable phase. Whether you use "No Contact" or the "Grey Rock" method (becoming as uninteresting as a grey rock), you are actively starving the narcissist of their "supply" - your emotional reactions.

• The Internal Conflict: You feel like an addict. You want to check their social media; you want to know if they are happy without you.
• Just as you start to create distance, something pulls you back in—a message, a memory, a moment of doubt—and the cycle starts again*.*
• Real-Life Example: They send you a "Hoovering" text - a random message like "I saw this and thought of you" or "I'm so sorry, I've changed”. In the past, you would have jumped at this. Now, you realize it’s just a hook. You feel the urge to reply, but you choose to put your phone in another room and breathe through the anxiety.
• The Data Insight: Our analysis shows that this is the "Relapse Zone”. Most survivors try to leave multiple times before it sticks. Having a community to "hold your hand" during these texts is the #1 predictor of success.

Phase 4: Identity Reclamation (The Quiet Rebuilding)

Once the "noise" of the narcissist is gone, you are left with a terrifying silence. You realize you don't know what you like, what your hobbies are, or even what your favorite food is, because you spent so long catering to them.

• The Internal Conflict: "Who am I when I'm not being a caretaker or a target?"
• Real-Life Example: You go to a movie or a restaurant alone. You realize you don't have to ask for permission. You start reconnecting with that one friend they made you stop talking to three years ago. It feels awkward at first, but slowly, the "fog" clears, and your personality starts to resurface.
• The Data Insight: This is the phase where survivors stop talking about "Them" and start talking about "Me." The vocabulary shifts from "What did he do?" to "How do I feel?"

Phase 5: Integration (Post-Traumatic Growth)

You don't "get over" narcissistic abuse; you integrate it. The experience stops being a gaping wound and becomes a scar - a mark of where you've been and what you've survived.

• The Internal Conflict: You no longer feel the need for a "final showdown" or an apology. You realize that your healing is the only closure you need.
• Real-Life Example: You meet someone new (or a new colleague/friend) and they show a "Red Flag" - maybe a small lie or a boundary push. Instead of making excuses for them, you calmly walk away. You aren't "bitter"; you are simply protected.
• The Data Insight: This is the most beautiful part of our data. Survivors in Phase 5 often become the "guides" for those in Phase 1. They use their pain as a lighthouse for others still lost in the fog.

Where are you on this timeline?

There is no "right" speed. Some people stay in Phase 1 for years; others fly through to Phase 3 and then loop back to Phase 2. The goal isn't to be fast; it's to be honest with yourself.

Last, It’s important to remember that timelines can be tricky and not necessarily this absolute. Also, there are scenarios where there is ongoing contact because of kids etc so everything should be taken on consideration and proportion..

Admit it, your ego ended us

Shoed me out, a speck of dust

Longing for that one last touch

We hugged it out, it meant so much

 

I weep for days

Attempt to fade

My heart, my soul, my longing

 

Could you not see

You meant to me

Everything. My Love. Belonging.

 

I wasn’t with another guy

I’m flattered that you think I’d try

My Try, 🎶to keep you off my mind🎶

Was just another night

Of drinks and pool and nibling

 

And now, I have to wonder why

You said those things to me and lie

I called it out in real-time

All the tactics: deny, deny, deny

 

I see you say you say you cry

I hear you say I said goodbye

Is it even fair for you to wonder why?

When you’re the one that said goodbye

 

Why have I never seen you cry

Belief is hard for me to try

When I poured out and left to dry

You’re the one that said goodbye

 

So much disdain, so disrespectful

You stabbed my soul, you were so resentful

With no “I’m sorry” - Nothing left

But on here your pride is kept

From remorse and true reflection

No accountability - All projection

 

So many lies I saw from you

In disbelief I saw it through

That one day soon you’d tell the truth

Abandoned me instead – you knew

 

My biggest fear was used against me

Wrapped around my heart so gently

Then ripped apart and said forget me

 

This love I knew so well before

From other monsters with pusty sores

Brought back to life in mine in yours

I give up. Defeat. No more.

 

Now you say you want me back

You didn’t think that I’d keep track?

You run to win, but gold you lack

My heart is metal, yours is black

 

You won the fight but now you lose

All the right to me, abuse

Do you understand the words I chose?

I hope you see it; I hope you do

 

Now listen please, to Socrates

And just know that I can be forgiving

You must go deep inside and see

“The unexamined life is not worth living”

 

The journey’s long, maybe five years in fact

But Sauron called, he wants his ring back

(Just trowing this into the void because talking about it helps)

“I’ll make the world whatever I want it to be.” - Pippi Longstocking

This quote from my favourite childhood books describes my Ex's way or arguing remarkably well.

He would often come up with weird BS scenarios about how he wanted life, me and the world in general to be and would then treat these scenarios as if they were the absolute truth of the universe or set in stone plans that everyone had already agreed to, the second they materialized into his brilliant mind.

Some examples of these scenarios/fantasies of his and the ways that reality clashed with them:

1. He was definitely going to move in with me after one month and sleep on a camping bed in my room.

-> I have a roommate. Had them since before my ex and I got together. Roomie lived there first, I moved in with them. Even if I WANTED him to move in, I couldn't have let him without getting permission from my roomie. Also the flat is NOT big enough for three. Also He had no money to pay for rent/utilities (lived with his parents and barely worked)

2. I was to quit my job and just work for his employer, so he could have access to me 24/7 since it was 100% remote and only part time, two days per week.

-> the job was in a field I didn't know shit about, paid way less than my current one and was completely outside of my field of competence. I also needed my higher paying job so I can finance my studies in medicine later this year.

5. I could take every hobby I have to his place (drawing sewing, making music, reading) and just do them while he was there. Taking time to myself or me doing these things alone hurt him too much.

-> would have been nice if it worked but as soon as I tried to draw at his place he couldn't leave me alone for more than five minutes without touching me, poking me, yapping at me or shoving his hands down my clothes because he was bored.

5. I needed to give him all of my freetime, every second after work, every weekend, EVERYTHING, otherwise I was a bad, hurtful and borderline abusive partner.

-> I really did try at first but man... He pushed me into an actual burnout with this. We talked about this a LOT but my agruments just weren't valid to him.

6. My hobbies should be centered around him (cosplay characters he wanted to f***, draw porn for him, read books he wants me to read etc.)

-> drawing and cosplaying are deeply personal things for me and I hate drawing smut or objectifying myself with my cosplays. Also reading isn't fun when you're not doing it of your own free will

Now if I had been able to talk to him like a regular grown up (we're both nearily 30 btw) it would have been fine. Lower your expectations, set realistic goals, find compromises. This was impossible with him though.

He was "my way or the highway" with EVERYTHING and every time I told him why something he wanted couldn't realistically work, he'd ignore every fact and argument and just give me the good old "If you actually loved me, you would make it work! This just proves that you never really loved me!!! You are neglecting my needs! You don't let me live my truth and my sexuality! You're purposely neglecting me! YOU'RE hurting ME!"

Talking to my therapist about this helps so much and he actually named my Ex's behaviour "Pippi Longstocking arguments" because giving this grown toddler's behaviour a childish name really helps reframe it into something that doesn't burn my insides anymore. Looking at it as the childish tantrum of a man who never truly grew up, helps with not feeling angry anymore, it means that I won't have to stay up at night anymore, spending hours thinking about all those stupid stupid arguments, that I never could have won in the first place because he had decided the only acceptable outcome, before they even started.

Obviously this approach might not help everyone and most certainly shouldn't be used for every situation but it does help me quite a bit.

I will say, I am a very strong woman. I run businesses. The household. I work in volatile male dominated environments and I have never been one to shy away.

After 6 years of seeing this man I am starting to finally see it for what it is. I have to beg for affection. Beg. And every time I raise that my emotional needs aren't being met suddenly I am dramatic, expect too much, am "losing it" and am "spiralling" which is a problem to him.

I could literally be having the calmest conversation ever as I have to choose my words carefully and talk to him in a way that isn't remotely accusatory or blunt (he is disgustingly blunt with me and downright awful sometimes), or else it is my fault and he threatens to withdraw even further and I am asking too much of him.

He knocks down my success and achievements business wise. Down to telling me not to discuss them with him anymore. Giving me compliments is like pulling teeth and when I seek reassurance I'm "annoying" and why am i asking him when I should already know.

I guess I'm struggling to understand how somewhere along the way my self esteem became so low that I would tolerate this? Every time I walk away I reflect and start thinking somehow it's my fault.

He's never apologized to me, had empathy, or taken account for his behaviour. Every time the dynamic falls apart it becomes that I am not relaxed enough, I did this, and it is my fault for "losing it".

How do I even talk to him? Has anyone ever managed to get through to these people in any which way or is walking away the only answer here?

If I walk away I need to find a way to remind myself that this is downright awful.

been at this for about two years and the list below is roughly what i actually read in order, plus a couple my therapist handed me and a couple i found on my own when one book pointed at another in a footnote. wanted to share what moved the work forward for me. honest commentary, not 5-stars-across-the-board, because the recs that helped most were always the ones where someone admitted what they bounced off too.

1. Running on Empty by Jonice Webb
   the first book my therapist gave me, which is also the first book most people get given. the questionnaire in the back is fine to take but the real value of the book is the reframe that absence of bad treatment is not the same as presence of good treatment. that distinction broke open about a decade of "but my parents weren't abusive" for me.

2. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson
   recommended by my therapist after i kept getting stuck on the question of what kind of parent mine actually was. gibson's four types finally let me name it. the chapter on healing fantasies, the imagined version of the parent you keep waiting for, was the most uncomfortable chapter i've read in this whole genre. i had to put the book down for a week.

3. Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride
   the chapters on how the wound shows up in romance specifically were the most useful piece of this for me. take or leave the parental framing depending on yours. found it because mcbride is cited in webb's book.

4. Mother Hunger by Kelly McDaniel
   this came out more recently and the framing is different from webb's. mcdaniel calls it an attachment injury rather than neglect and i think she's right about that distinction. the three components she names (nurturance, protection, guidance) gave me language for what was missing that webb's general framing didn't.

5. Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker
   not strictly a CEN book but the four trauma responses (fight, flight, freeze, fawn) are walker's framing and they map onto CEN patterns better than the original literature does. read this if you've ever wondered why your default mode is managing everyone else's emotional weather.

6. The Psychology Behind Your Love Patterns by Taro's Tarot
   i picked this up looking for something that connected the CEN material to my adult relationship patterns. the chapter on the core belief underneath each style and the inner-child grief work were the bridge i'd been looking for between knowing the pattern and changing it. mid-list rec, not the foundational text but a useful synthesis.

7. Homecoming: Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child by John Bradshaw
   written in the 80s and the language is dated. push through it. the developmental-stages framework, how to grieve what didn't happen at each age, is the most concrete inner-child work i've come across. the audiobook with bradshaw narrating is the better format if you bounce off the dated prose.

8. Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw
   companion to homecoming, more focused on toxic shame as the residue of being raised by parents who couldn't be present. the chapter on how shame becomes identity, not just feeling, is the one that explained why insight alone has never been enough for me.

9. It Didn't Start With You by Mark Wolynn
   dense, more theoretical than practical. include for the language it gives you for why some of this feels generational rather than personal. read homecoming first if you only have time for one.

what am i missing. specifically:
- something on the shutdown / deactivated response in CEN survivors. most books are written for the fawn-coded reader. the kid who went quiet needs their own canon.
- anything good on rebuilding preference and want as an adult, not just identifying the absence. webb names it but doesn't really teach it.
- and the one i keep meaning to read but haven't yet, the lindsay gibson follow-up. anyone read it?

what bounced you off, that's usually more useful than what worked.

I feel like I don’t know where to start. I’ve had multiple surgeries in the last few months and a miscarriage. On each occasion my “fiance” has bailed. Each time he claimed having things that he “has to do” such as taking care of belongings in storage sheds, moving vehicles and belongings, just all sorts of endless things that are not really urgent in comparison to post surgery support of a partner. Things really became apparent to me around March this year. I had suspected drug use but wasn’t really sure. Turns out he has a massive meth addiction and his ex who is conveniently an escort is who he’s been turning to for months in our relationship. He attacks me and puts me down and has abused me for most of our relationship. He’s gotten physical like really badly. I feel like an idiot for continually letting him back in. I kept making excuses. He came up recently to be there for my surgery and I thought finally this time he understands what he needs to do. But he still let me down. He abused me less than 48 hours post my surgery attacking me saying I was controlling him and telling him what to do. These were the exact phrases that he would use while he was in contact with the ex who is an escort. He sent me his own bank statements to try to show transparency but in these bank statements show that he’s been on Tinder and spending euros on what I suspect to be porn sites. He sent a video to an escort or some other woman off of chatter bait which I saw. He called me a sneaky bitch for looking through his phone but it was only from me doing that out of suspicion and deep deep deep regret that I had to do that but my gut feeling screaming at me that I found out everything. We temporarily separated at that time and I started dating somebody else. He claimed to have put a app on my phone and that’s how he knew that I met somebody else but then he also said that a little birdie told him. I just don’t know what’s true. And after my recent surgery just bailing on me again claiming that he has things “to do” whilst also talking to me about us getting married and having children, what the fuck kind of crack is he smoking? Do you know what I mean? But I also feel like an idiot because why did I keep believing him. I guess what I’m seeking is some sort of emotional support or validation to help me understand how someone could bail another person in their upmost vulnerable time such as post major surgery. And it’s not my first surgery. I cannot comprehend how another human being can say to somebody that they love you and then bail at the utmost critical times and expect that you could have marriage or children together. I’m just looking for some sort of insight in insanity or disturbance that I’m dealing with. He claims to have ADHD. I don’t think he does. I think he’s learnt to use that as an excuse for using meth. Because there are clinical trials and using meth for ADHD. He doesn’t exhibit traits of ADHD. What he does exhibit our traits of emotional and psychological abuse physical abuse so much domestic violence. I did call the police on him once. Because I loved him and didn’t want to send him to jail I thought it was better that he do a DV course which he enrolled in and did. But he missed my my birthday recently, said he’d make it up to me, then wasn’t even here for the actual surgery, claims he couldn’t bear it if something happened to me, then postsurgery is abusing me verbally and bailing on me which in a sense is a form of abuse and I was bleeding and begging him to help me like I can’t lift anything over 5 kg for 2 to 4 weeks. And I said could you please mow the lawn in my house that he was staying in for free. Could you please help out with moving a few things and he laughed at me when I was crying and saying why do you keep treating me so badly. And I said do you just not want to be here and he said yes I wanna be down there referring to the Gold Coast. And so I left. I just left him. And then the next day when I came back trying to repair with some breakfast in a note stating the boundaries that I needed he was gone. No no no phone call no nothing. Just a sook email blaming me for leaving him there alone. He was upset that he was left alone when I was post surgery needing to be cared for. Someone please help me so that I don’t feel completely insane.

Hi, i'm an ESL teacher working in Mexico and married to a narc husband, please don't judge, but yesterday I found lice in my hair in the morning and didn't go to school to make sure I took care of the problem, because I stayed, my husband's alarm phone didn't go off supposably and got angry cause he woke up late, when he asked me why I didn't go to work and I told him he got even more angry saying that how could that happen, and to tell him who I got the lice from, and where it happened, I work with over 120 children in this school, some come close and hug me, some I just get close enough to check homework and stuff, but he didn't believe it was from a child that I got it from, insinuating I got it from another man (I have never cheated on him, and cut off all communication with male friends once we got married) but hes made me feel so nasty and disgusting, when we went out yesterday night a fly flew close to me and said " it looks like insects are attracted to you" when we got home he said that he won't be using anything I've used before from now on because he has shoulder length hair and doesn't want to get it from me, he didn't even want to get close to me to give me a kiss, Im usually very careful with this stuff, I've been an ESL teacher for 10 years and never gotten lice until now and I only found two lice in my hair, I spent all day combing it and nothing else came out so I'm pretty sure I got rid of them but he says that he'll be taking his distance what's left of the month just to make sure.