u/salamacast

Widely mistaken as a real Biblical passage, even by Christian politicians on Twitter, Samuel L Jackson's quote in Pulp Fiction (about the wrath of God) proves the text is easily imitated to the degree that a fake verse can gain wide spread among Christians, while thousands of 10-year-old Muslim kids have memorized the Qur'an and couldn't be fooled as easily!
This is also a clear example of what a "surah like it" imitation challenge would have been, since the Hollywood verse is indeed similar to the Bible enough to be accepted in the American popular culture as Bible-like, something that never happened with any of the alleged Quran-like imitation attempts in the Islamic world.

Is this a new phenomenon?! These trailers are intentionally edited to avoid showing any actor actually speaking, cutting around those scenes and using voice over instead. Not a single frame of lips movement!
The War of the Kingdoms one fooled me.

I knew a kid who used to fast-forward and skip a certain sad scene in his favorite animated movie (Shaun the Sheep, when the farmer abandoned his flock). He couldn't rewatch it.
I'm the same with any depiction of emasculation, and this extends to real life. I just can't watch a man being humiliated. No problem with slashers though, or even a guy being voluntarily emotional, it's the "subjected to humiliation" part that I can't handle at all.
I'm usually ultra introspective, digging for the roots of all my symptoms, but this one I avoid looking too deeply into, because I'm too afraid to stir some long forgotten childhood trauma or unearth a fundamental stone my personality was built upon.
What are your avoided triggers?
I think I've dealt with or gotten over the majority of the other sensitive scenarios. Drowning itself doesn't do much for me, but tall waves still leave me in awe (I can't watch the scene in Interstellar with the "high wave" planet!). I traced it back to a nearly-drowning incident as a kid, feeling crushed under a tall wave that came out of nowhere.

I need an unbiased, objective academic opinion to this "Mhmd" controversy, and if possible, an explanation for the LXX rendering it completely differently "Mkms".
This is my first post on the sub, so sorry if the form of my inquiry was a bit off.

Even Elisha's bones supposedly did it, with a random dead guy walking out of his grave! (2K 13:21)
So coming back to life yourself or bringing others back to life doesn't make you a god.

The verse is notoriously difficult to translate, even the Greek LXX had to change some letters to make it coherent.
Reading the English translations, without extensive annotations, conceals the problematic words.

Hebrew Hosea 9:6 supposedly says

מִצְרַיִם תְּקַבְּצֵם
Egypt will gather them,
מֹף תְּקַבְּרֵם
Memphis will bury them,
מַחְמַד לְכַסְפָּם
The desirable things of their silver
קִמּוֺשׂ יִירָשֵׁם
Nettles possess them,
חוֺחַ בְּאָהֳלֵיהֶם
Thorn is in their tents.

You can notice that this Hebrew passage uses rhyming 2-word smaller sections. The first line has the word EGYPT then the word Will Gather Them (yes, it's one word in Hebrew. Attached prepositions)
The second line: Memphis, Will Bury Them.
The third is the funny one!
MHMD, For Their Money.
The fourth line: Nettles, Will Inherit Them.
The fifth line: Thorns, In Their Homes.

The 3rd line is difficult to translate as a complete, separate sentence, so translators tend to combine it with the 4th, ignoring a pesky preposition (the Hebrew letter L, for), and reconstructing the two sentences into a new one.
Why?
The problem they face is that the Hebrew word MHMD is usually a clear word, means "pleasant, desired or desirable".. but "desirable for their silver" isn't a complete sentence by itself, but also doesn't mesh well with the next sentence.
(See: The Septuagint Text of Hosea Compared with the Massoretic Text, The University of Chicago Press, by Gaylard H. Patterson)

This is why the New Oxford Annotated Bible says: "Nettles shall possess their precious things of silver. (Meaning of Hebrew uncertain)"

The Jewish Study Bible tried to solve the problem by altering the text. They changed the order of the lines, bringing the 3rd line (the pesky one about silver) to the top!
"Behold, they have gone from destruction
[With] the silver they treasure.
Egypt shall hold them fast,
Moph shall receive them in burial.
Weeds are their heirs;
Prickly shrubs occupy their [old] homes"

Also notice the added "with" (!!). When the glove doesn't fit, YOU MAKE IT FIT!

The Pulpit Commentary also said: "The LXX; again puzzled by the word maehmad, mistook it for a proper name"
Apparently the septuagint translators felt the need to change it to something else. They made it a city's name.
μαχμας το αργυριον αυτων ολεθρος κληρονομησει ακανθαι εν τοις σκηνωμασιν αυτων
They changed the spelling completely!
It became מכמס (Strong #H4363, Mikmac) [A name of a city, means "Hidden"]
MHMD --> MKMS (!!)
Septuagint in English (Brenton's edition) says:
"Therefore, behold, they go forth from the trouble of Egypt, and Memphis shall receive them, and Machmas shall bury them: [as for] their silver, destruction shall inherit it; thorns [shall be] in their tents"

Why do you think the LXX Jewish translators chose to ignore the common use of the word "pleasant" in this instance, preferring a corrupt reading of a name of a city (that literally means: hidden, by the way)?! What were they thinking?
The verse is split into rhyming pieces, with even an added alliteration between the first three pieces. We have Egypt, beginning with an M (msr), Memphis begining with an M (mph), then a third word beginning with an M (mhmd). Maybe they assumed that yet another city was intended. In reality it was indeed a name but of a person. They simply didn't know that at the time, so corrupted it into Mkms.
That's part of the tahreef/corruption Muslims are always talking about!

The Greek Bible, the LXX used by many Christians, is corrupt, changing Mhmd into Mkms.

All of these conflicting attempts, just because they didn't understand at the time that the word was a proper name, a prophecy about Muhammad's 625 CE incident with the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir (visiting them, asking them to honor a peace treaty by contributing to a blood-money he had to pay.. their attempt to assassinate him.. his retaliation by banishing the whole tribe)

In 625 CE, Muhammad was visiting the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, asking them to honor the peace treaty (by contributing to a blood-money he had to pay). So, literally, Muhammad came for the Jewish silver! As the prophecy said.

They pretended to accept, and offered him a seat near a wall, then decided that the opportunity was too good to miss.. and thought that a falling rock from above the wall will solve their "Muhammad problem" forever.

Muhammad, sitting with 2 or three friends, waiting for the money, was secretly informed of the plot. He suddenly stood up and left without a word. The assassination plot failed.

He went home and sent a message to Banu Nadir, expelling the whole tribe. They accepted at first, and started to prepare for exile, but some crypto-pagans inside the Muslim community (Munafiqun/Hypocrites) secretly encouraged them and promised military aid. Banu Nadir decided to go to war. A siege was started. No help came. Their cowardly pagan friends abandoned them! Muhammad's army was outside Banu Nadir's forts, while the Jewish tribe used the strategic advantage of palm trees (they were a rich agricultural tribe) to shoot arrows.

Muhammad began to burn the trees, which was the last straw, and Banu Nadir surrendered.

They were ordered to evacuate, carrying whatever their animals can carry (except weapons). They did, even taking the wooden doors with them!

Some of them went to Syria, while others went to the Jewish tribe of Khaybar, preparing for a second round. (a few years later they lost this one too)

The Qur'anic Sura 59 talks about the event. The name of the chapter is al-Hashr, i.e. the Gathering or the banishment.

Keep those previous points in mind:
Money demand. Assassination plot against a prophet. Jews seeking pagan allies. Jewish Forts. Burnt trees. Exile. Abandoned homes. A gathering.
ALL of these were already mentioned in Hosea!

In the 8th century BCE, the Book attributed to Hosea the prophet was attacking the Jewish tribes of Northern Israel, mocking their apostasy, and their alliance with the infidels/pagans.. predicting their downfall and the Assyrian invasion of Israel.

Keil & Delitzsch Commentary, Hosea 8:9-10 "Going to Assyria is defined still further in the third clause as suing for loves, i.e., for the favour and help of the Assyrians... Ephraim tries to form unnatural alliances with the nations of the world"

Christians sometimes claim prophecies can also be symbolic, and that "going back to Egypt" doesn't mean exclusively the known country, but abandoning God's way and adopting foreign customs. So a prophecy can do double duty. Be about both the Assyrian episode and the Muhammad/Nadir episode. Famously, a biblical passage about humiliating a specific historical king was also understood as referring to Satan being cast down from Heaven.

New English Translation (NET):

Hosea 8:10 "Even though they have hired lovers among the nations, I will soon gather them together for judgment. Then they will begin to waste away under the oppression of a mighty king"

8:14 "Israel has forgotten his Maker and built royal palaces, and Judah has built many fortified cities. But I will send fire on their cities; it will consume their royal citadels"

9:6-8 "Look! Even if they flee from the destruction, Egypt will take hold of them, and Memphis will bury them. The weeds will inherit the silver they treasure. Thorn bushes will occupy their homes. The time of judgment is about to arrive! The time of retribution is imminent! Let Israel know! The prophet is considered a fool. The inspired man is viewed as a madman, because of the multitude of your sins and your intense animosity. The prophet is a watchman over Ephraim on behalf of God, [NET annotation: The syntax of this line is difficult, and the text is questionable]. Yet traps are laid for him along all of his paths; animosity rages against him in the land of his God"

In 1 Corinthians 15:8 Paul said: "Last of all, as though to one born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also"

In 1 Samuel 28, the witch of En-dor supposedly brought up for king Saul the ghost of prophet Samuel, who looked like him and made a true political prophecy. The Old Testament context treats this as the real Samuel, but some Christians deny the concept of ghosts (as they should) and say it was a demonic ruse, a trick, and the prophecy was a lucky guess.
Fine. They are reinterpreting the uncomfortable parts of the Tanakh, using mental gymnastics that contradict the gist of the story (as usual!), but their interpretation throws doubt on many other apparitions!

http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/rox/VideoThumbnail.html
https://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/node/128.html

Thought patterns collude and fortify defensive operations. Schizoid thought processes are often structured to protect the individual from the discomfort of strong negative affects and human conflicts

'Why bother?. Who cares?. It doesn’t matter'
'I can manage things on my own without anybody's help'
'Human relationships are just not worth the bother.' 'They are messy and interfere with freedom'
'Nothing is ever exciting'
'I can use other people for my own purposes as long as I don't get involved'
'My privacy is much more important to me than closeness to people'
'It doesn't matter what other people think of me'
'I am not influenced by others in what I decide to do.' 'I set my own standards and goals for myself'
'I have no motivation.' 'I’m just going through the motions'

(from p201 & 313 Wheeler pdf)

.

Additional frequent statements I noticed:
'I'm a potentially bad influence. I avoid others for their own good'
'Why plan or build anything when it could all be destroyed in an instant anyway?'
'I have defective genes. I shouldn't procreate'
'I'm like a visiting alien in this life'
'I don't need much, so why bother earning more?'
'I've done all I ever wanted to do. Life has nothing more to offer'

In 1 Corinthians 15:8 Paul said: "Last of all, as though to one born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also"

In 1 Samuel 28, the witch of En-dor supposedly brought up for king Saul the ghost of prophet Samuel, who looked like him and made a true political prophecy. The Old Testament context treats this as the real Samuel, but some Christians deny the concept of ghosts (as they should) and say it was a demonic ruse, a trick, and the prophecy was a lucky guess.
Fine. They are reinterpreting the uncomfortable parts of the Tanakh, using mental gymnastics that contradict the gist of the story (as usual!), but their interpretation throws doubt on many other apparitions!