r/enmeshmenttrauma

He's extremely into incest memes. He was extremely addicted to pornography for a long period of his life and he's watched shows and movies that heavily include incest or that is a main point in the show/movie. His mother is enmeshed to him. He was the only child for a long time , he is his bio mothers only child, on his dad's side when he was 10 or 11 years old, his dad had two daughters by another woman and those two daughters are a year apart. His entire life he was raised by the mom only. He hardly saw his dad as he got older. He started seeing the dad a little more often. His mom can be extremely inappropriate and their relationship can be inappropriate and have blurred lines and blurred to zero boundaries. I don't know what to do.

I’m starting to dislike my mother-in-law.

When my husband (31) and I (30) got engaged, she wanted to transfer their land title to his name before our actual wedding because “she knows he wouldn’t be selfish and share it with his sisters”. His two sisters are both married to irresponsible men so they don’t want them to have a share in that land. I do not care though because I can work and save up for our own house and lot. It was just really telling. I feel like this is because this would be a pre-marital asset and I wouldn’t have a right to it.

Before he proposed, his mother made him renovate her family home. I thought this signified limiting the financial assistance they get from my husband (240 to 480+ USD per month) and that this would be the last big favor they would ask of him before they let him go to live his own life with his chosen wife.

We are married for a few months now and the financial assistance significantly dropped to 80 to160 USD per month. Last January, he sent 160USD and her mother was asking where is her insurance money (17USD) and my husband replied it’s already included in the 160 USD. Now, she told his other sibling that he is being angry when allowance is being brought up but I honestly did not see any anger from my husband’s response. To his mother, it came across as “It’s already included in the 160 USD, don’t complain anymore”. It turned me off because why is my husband being painted as a neglectful son. For context, she has no other source of income except for her farm.

Just this month, I learned from her sister that their mom wanted to have the normal allowance reinstated. I felt like this was a total disrespectful and disregard to the life we are building together as a married couple. I brought up the inconsideration to my husband and he just defended her by saying it’s not inconsiderate, they just want help, and that if they were inconsiderate they would insist on asking that amount. But for me, that mere expectation from a married man itself is inconsideration of him and his primary family. They also know we are drowning in credit card debt but never did I hear his mother tell him to focus on being solvent or focus on his wife now. As a matter of fact she also receives 160USD per month from her other child. My husband even told me that their mother was telling them all she is doing (the farming) is for her children, not for herself. That she is doing all this so that she can leave a legacy for her children. But tbh, i see my husband leaking a huge money monthly that could have just went to personal savings or could have been used to pay credit card debts.

He told me that before I even came to the picture, she made him promise he will not abandon her. And he isn’t exactly abandoning her. There’s just boundaries right now. I asked him to please reiterate to his mom that I am now his new priority. He just told me to let him do it in his own pace.

This argument quieted down until recently his sister told him their mother was crying because she misses him and that he should make an effort to call her. They have a 2 to 3 hours video call every Saturday but these past two Saturdays my husband and I had our own plans. The first Saturday, he picked me up after an event and we dined outside. Even so, he was able to join the call and speak for about an hour or so. He even told me that when he picked up, he was the only sibling in the call and he told his mom “I’m outside” to which his mom threw a tantrum and said “I won’t be calling you guys anymore.” The next Saturday, we went out to see my friends. Before we headed out, he still joined their video call. The next day he also called them for a few minutes while we were having dinner outside.

My husband has never neglected her and was highly present. It is disturbing that she would stage a crying fit to his sister instead of just messaging my husband that she misses him. I feel like she is guilt-tripping him so that she remains as the main woman in his life.

My husband defends all this saying it’s normal for parents to miss their child. I am pointing out the irrationally because he was there two Saturdays and one Sunday and why is that not enough. I am being painted like a bad guy for feeling like his mother is competing with our weekend plans and I am losing my sanity. It is so exhausting because I feel like my marriage is one guilt trip away from leaking a huge amount of money or adjusting our plans just to appease his mother. And my husband just sees this as a normal and cute tantrum from a sweet and lonely mother who is in her old age.

I'm revisiting and unpacking more about enmeshment and emotional incest. Really just looking for a starting point to understand what happened to me and what I'm dealing with. Sorry this is so vague, but if others could share some examples of enmeshment and some of the ways this has affected them, I think it would help me understand myself. To me, it feels almost like a type of brainwashing and grooming even if it wasn't intentional on the parent's part.

I believe I have Dependent Personality Disorder (DPD) which developed as a result of enmeshment.

What exactly is enmeshment? I’m trying to organize my thoughts about what happened to me as a child.
What’s the difference between enmeshment and being over-protective / helicopter parent (I call it co-dependency) which in my description is when someone *forces* you to need them / depend on them. Like, **control** … they won’t let you do your own things or even move on your own! Like, you can’t take a step or move an inch without them hovering over your shouter criticizing everything that you do! You can’t think for yourself! They won’t let you have a single thought that is your own!

-Control is 100% a big dynamic of this.
-It fueled by criticism and fear.
-an inability for the caregiver to see *individuality*; instead you have to be exactly know *they* want you to be, and if you don’t fit that, you’re wrong! (Control, right?)

I literally could not think on my own as a child. I could not govern myself. Not even for the most basic things. It’s like I couldn’t even breathe or move on my own … every step was wrong, or horribly corrected. I literally felt my brain was (almost literally) connected to my mom’s, and how was I supposed to think for my own?? 🔌 I had to think through her brain … she was my brain … she did not *allow* me to have **free thought**! does anybody understand what that is like?? … and people around me really wonder why I am the way I am now 😭 if only they knew …

It’s like, she broke my legs and expects me to walk …
People expect me to walk on broken legs …
No one understands how this stuff messes you up … fundamentally.

I understood that my mother found her identity and wellbeing in “caring” for me. It was almost an *escape* for her. And not just for me, but people in general. She had that “care taker” thing going … people had to need her, or she had to *do* for others, to feel needed or important or have a sense of self. She was also projecting a lot of her childhood trauma onto me. She parented out of fear and control. It as never true care, though it was painted that way. It sure didn’t feel that way, or manifest that way. Only to her, and maybe to blind people. (Well, no one was there to witness it anyway …)

Anyway, I just want to fit these things into a category, so I can have more clarity and understanding of my experiences, and also how to express them. There’s so much lingo for all of these interesting childhood experiences, it’s hard to find the words for it all. Can you help me out?

So last month was the biggest realisation moment, it all fully clicked. Me and my mother are super enmeshed and she wasn’t as great as she thought she was. Now she wasn’t evil or narcissistic per se but she was sooo emotionally immature oh my goodness.

Anyway I’m starting to have flash backs of things that happened in my childhood, why is it all pouring in now😞.
I remember being forced to do her friends makeup when they’re going to a wedding, literally she will sign me up for unpaid labour. She would make me do our nieces makeup and hair too mind you they’re like 14 and I’m tired as hell but she never takes no for an answer.

I also remember vividly not being able to have fun, I would lie and say it was an awful time when I go out so she can leave me alone. If it was fun she’s not happy. She was super involved with my friends and who was good and who was bad ( she disliked everyone’) and would pray regularly that God removes them from my life. Granted my dumb ass used to overshare sooo much and it cost me everything now.

I don’t know which stage of healing I’m in but I keep remembering random things she did and getting soo mad, I never want to be like that. I want my kids to have autonomy, to be able to say no, to express themselves. At my grown age I get a panic attack after saying no to someone like wtf is that bro.

My sibling(21NB) and I(19NB) have always been too close. We have no boundaries, no separate lives, we exist as a unit, so overt that our friends have called us a "package deal". Some of them have even pointed out that it's "weird" how close we are (and they're right! they just don't know the extent of it.) We have very long personal conversations every night that venture into topics that siblings probably shouldn't be discussing. We function almost like a married couple, save for the fact that we don't have sex. No, instead they just tell me about their sexual encounters and relationships, as well as their habits involving porn and fetishes. I can't say this is fully on them though, as I have engaged in these conversations and have even done the same. It's almost like a compulsion.

This all stems from deep seated childhood trauma. We were both molested together when we were really young, and on top of that were never taught any healthy boundaries by our extremely physically and emotionally abusive parents. In fact, our lifelong "closeness" was always encouraged by our parents (namely our mother and her parents). Our relationship as kids was horribly codependent, and on top of that, there was a brief but extremely traumatic period where we were repeating the SA we suffered onto each other. We believed, due to the trauma we faced together, that no one could ever possibly understand us except for each other. We only had each other in the face of our horrifying reality from the moment I was born.

We've been through awful things together, and often it feels like we are one in the same. We tell each other almost everything we experience when we're apart, sometimes we even get our memories mixed up. Everything they feel, I feel, and vice versa. We have so much emotional turmoil that we can only turn to each other to soothe, which only further pushes us into this toxic cycle of codependency.

I've never been able to form romantic feelings towards another person, despite how much I long for connection like that. I always chalked it up to being autistic or maybe I'm just aromantic or something but I'm starting to think this enmeshment is the root of the problem, and the reason my brain won't romantically connect with others is because it's already too occupied caring for the emotional needs of my sibling, and having many of my own emotional needs met by them.

It's suffocating. I feel like I have to give all of myself to my sibling. I don't have any true personhood, I barely feel human. And while I feel horrible for it, just looking at them reminds me of all of the horrible traumatic things we went through as children together. My daily life is a neverending cycle of being triggered and retraumatized again and again and again and again.

But no matter how badly I want to get away, no matter how much I want to live as my own person and finally be free, I can't. There are certain circumstances which makes it hard, namely my financial situation (we're both incredibly poor and live paycheck to paycheck just to pay the bills of our shitty one bedroom single wide trailer), but what makes it truly impossible is that I could never do that to my sibling. I could never leave them. I love them. What happened to us as children wasn't their fault. And I know it wasn't my fault either but I can't help but feel so much guilt, like I should have done something to protect them (even though there's absolutely nothing I could have feasibly done). And it hurts so so bad, because when I do try to withdraw from them and try to establish certain boundaries, they make me feel even more guilty by saying things like "I just want to bond with my little sibling" and "why are you so mean to me", which is honestly fair because I'm not actually effectively communicating the actual issues with them and am honestly probably just coming off as being moody. But I can't really address our issues without talking about our childhood and resurfacing trauma which is extremely triggering for the both of us. I don't know what to do, it feels like I'll be stuck like this until I break and fully go insane. I don't know if there's any hope for me, or them, at all.

*This is a throwaway because I had too much personal info on my main account*

*Also, yes I am seeing a therapist I just need to vent to others that have been in similar family drama*

I'm married now with a 10 month old daughter and pregnant with my second, which becoming a parent has really opened my eyes to how my parents were. We're also about to move to another state soon, which i think could play into this whole drama. Anyways, before I get to the actual story drama, I'll give some background and i need to just talk about it too

How the enmeshment shows up with my parents

My mom is usually mainly loving and warm but can also be volatile, vindictive, not very self aware, and has a hard time with boundaries or receiving any kind of feedback without getting defensive.

Growing up I was basically her emotional support. She would cry and unload on me, and I would comfort her so i had to manage her feelings. She read my diary, my stories I'd written on my computer so basically no provacy or respect, used location tracking on me, and would give me the silent treatment when she was really upset. If i tried to talk to her about something I'm feeling bad about with her or the family, or if i told her i wanted to move out because i wanted my own space and more peace she'd make it about herself and how she's a horrible mother and ask what she did, to where I then had to comfort her when it was never about her to begin with.

My dad loves us a lot and shows it by providing and buying things, but he also has anger issues, yells, and uses emotional withdrawal as punishment. Like he would get cold, stop calling me by my nickname, say things like I'm a stranger sarcastically when i wouldnt have gone to visit them for a little bit (like 2 or 3 weeks, and this was as an adult living with my then boyfriend, now husband). It always passed eventually but as a kid that felt devastating.

I never cried in front of my family growing up, they actually all think I dont really cry and am not emotional. I am super emotional and cry a lot, just that because I had to manage everyone elses emotions, I guess I learned to not cry in front of them.

At 23, when I went on my first overseas trip with my boyfriend (now husband) they told me to keep my phone tracker on (they'd been tracking since I was in college or high school) and to call them every day. I FaceTimed mom as soon as we got the rental car, and then proceeded to call and text them pictures and text every single day of the trip so they wouldnt worry. One night we had a night tour to see sea turtle eggs, so had to have phones on silent and be quiet. I had already texted and sent pictures that day, don't remember if I had called yet or not. Mom called me while I was on the tour and since i didn't answer, kept calling multiple times and then had dad call multiple times. When I finally called them back, that same day, when we were back at the airbnb, my dad starts yelling saying that it looked like I was in the water and how worried my mom was and to answer next time. He made me feel so bad I started crying, for something so damn stupid that they should've been able to manage themselves

The rules in our house were inconsistent and depended on whoever's mood was running the show that day. My dad's mood would set the entire tone of the house and we'd all walk on eggshells when he seemed upset. My mom would sometimes explode about things like the house not being clean instead of just telling us what she expected or calling us names if she got really upset. It was a lot of reading the room, all the time.

The situation with my husband:

My parents have never fully accepted my husband. I think a big part of it is that I moved out with him before we were married which they didnt approve of, and around that time I also started setting more boundaries with my family. Instead of looking at themselves and asking why I might be pulling back, they found it easier to blame him for changing me, which may not have been entirely wrong as he actually gave me the space to be myself and learn who i am, as well as over time has helped me see and realize that the things they do or did weren't okay.

The thing is, my husband has actually suggested visiting my family more times than I have, I was the one who didn't want to go because honestly dealing with my parents is exhausting.

There was an incident where my husband drove my whole family to the state we're moving to do they could see it and he could look at properties, I couldn't go because of work. On the drive back he got frustrated in traffic and accelerated to get past a slow car. My parents came back convinced he had been reckless and dangerous and later my mom actually asked me if he was abusive. My siblings said they were exaggerating. My husband even initiated a conversation with my dad about it and apologized when he understood how it came across to my dad. But their skewed perspective of him stayed because again, i think its easier to blame than to look at themselves.

My mom also consistently leaves him out of family photos. Like will specifically gather me and my siblings and my dad for a group photo and just not include him. He's noticed, it bothers him and honestly it bothers me too.

They smile to his face and are cordial, my mom says she treats him like a son, but its apparent that she doesn't and underneath it they've never actually let him in. And he knows it. He puts up with it because they're my family but he doesn't really like them and I completely understand why.

Me finally trying to break away from the enmeshnent:

This has honestly been one of the hardest things I've ever done because I didn't even fully realize what I was doing for most of my life. I just thought I was being a good daughter and couldnt understand why on paper we were supposed to be such a close loving family, yet in reality they never actually knew who i was and I always felt like I had a mask on with them and couldn't fully feel comfortable or open up.

I've been in therapy, reading a lot, and doing serious self reflection. I've started setting actual limits with my parents instead of just finding workarounds to keep the peace. I'm now trying to not make myself responsible for their emotional states. I'm also trying to not let their anxiety and fear become my problem to solve, because they always need me to reassure their worries

I've also stopped being the messenger between my parents when they fight, stopped absorbing my mom's emotions as my own (or at least trying to), and stopped pretending their version of events is accurate when I know it isn't (this is more recent and i think what is causing and will cause a lot of conflict coming up)

.

What happened recently, AKA the actual active Drama:

My mom came over to help me with the baby while I did some things around the house. Everything was fine until my husband made a dark sarcastic joke about our dog, who has a rash and has been wearing a cone. It was clearly a joke, the kind of dark humor he makes sometimes with everyone, especially people hes comfortabl with. My mom didn't take it well and started crying and leaving, making passive aggressive comments, implying my husband is cruel or evil, and saying she hopes I wake up one day and realize what's going on. Basically implying he's controlling or abusive and implying that we're abusing our dog (they literally had a whole couch in their own corner of the living room until they destroyed it, now its a big dog bed and a separate dog bed for the third dog. We've put ointments and creams on our dog with the rash that was helping until literally the night before they came over he somehow squished his cone and got to another section of his back and opened up a new rash spot, so it looked worse that day).

Anyways, she said all of this in front of my daughter, while im literally 8 months pregnant. That part I can't get past.

I got defensive in the moment, said some things I regret, and owned that when I called her afterward to apologize. I was specific about what I was apologizing for and I genuinely meant it because I'd had a bad reaction and knew i hurt her feelings.

I told her what I needed from her, an apology to me and to my husband for the accusations and the hurtful things she said, and a promise that she won't behave that way in front of my daughters or to my family again because that would also affect my daughters. She said she couldn't apologize for what she meant and her feelings. She did apologize for saying it in front of my baby. She said there are things they've observed that they need to discuss and she's willing to apologize if she turns out to be wrong, but she won't just apologize for how she handled it, for the accusations, or the fact that it was hurtful. I tried to explain that I dont need her to apologize for her feelings or even what she thinks to be true, that I need an apologize for the way she handled it and for being hurtful and she just won't do it. Had she come at it from a more level headed place or even a place of being hurt but not hurting back, husband would've apologized and promised not to make dark jokes to them again. She also mentioned how i had also said hurtful things and I had to literally repeat to her that I know that's why the first thing I did when I called was apologize for that, and immediately after that she said she's sorry but very disingenuous and like she was just saying it meanly or something.

So, I've been going to family events alone because husband obviously doesn't want to go see people that believe the worst of him (i dont blame him). I also haven't brought my daughter because for one i can't drive alone with her (she can't handle, being alone in the car seat without someone sitting in the back with her), and also i now dont want my mom around her because if she cant even apologize to me, her own daughter, for hurting me and owning up to just her bad reaction, how am i supposed to know she wont go off like that again in front of her. How would i know shes not talking bad about her dad to my baby. How do i know when my daughter, soon to be daughters, is older and she inherits some of my hsubands personality (dark jokes, maybe some sarcasm, maybe the straightforwardness) she wont accidentally say something to hurt my moms feelings and my mom wont go off on her. My mom has asked about her and I've deflected for now, but thats a major conversationi have to have because now i dont want them seeing her until they can actually show me they're willing to work on changing at least around my family

We have a four way conversation planned in about two weeks. Me, my husband, and both my parents. I'm going in having already decided to let them speak first so I can hear what their actual intentions are and whether they're there for resolution or just to air grievances about my husband. Then I'll say what I need to say regardless of how they receive it.

The main things I need to get across are that I won't be managing their anxiety and fears anymore, that my husband is my family and needs to be treated as such, that my daughters will not be around behavior like what happened until I see actual change and not just words, and that I need a real apology not a conditional one.

I don't know how it'll go. I'm not holding out a lot of hope that my parents will be able to put their need to be right aside and actually hear me, but I'm going to say what needs to be said for myself, not to change them, just so that it's finally been said out loud.

If anyone has been through something similar or has been in a four way conversation with enmeshed parents I'd really love to hear how it went and any advice going in. It's been a lot dealing with this whole drama, being incredibly pregnant, managing a 10 month old baby girl that is very high needs, trying to sell our house, and having to plan the move across states soon.

Sorry for the super long post, I have a lot on my mind.

My mother is chinese-vietnamese and in her early 60s now, she lost a lot of her youth bc of immigration trauma. I’m almost 27 now and she thinks I am an extension of her, she’s unable to separate the concept of me from her as a person. Yesterday she saw a photo of me at an event at my school that was posted on social media. It was just a regular school dinner after a conference, for context I am currently in grad school and live far from her. We only speak occasionally on the phone.

She mentioned it to me and then spent the whole time complaining about how she didn’t like my outfit. It wasn’t even about it being ugly, it was about how SHE didn’t like it and how it was something SHE wouldn’t wear.

Not once did she ask how the event was, how I was doing, what I did or if I had fun or anything.

It was literally “why did you wear that?” “I don’t like how frumpy it is” “there was a girl wearing a dress why didn’t you wear a dress?” “I want my daughter to be more girly” “I wish my daughter had a nice dress like that!” “you need to be more điệu !!!”

It made me realize that she sees me as some avatar in a video game that she can personalize as if it’s her own character. It’s like she’s getting a chance to live life again through me, her new video game avatar, and she gets upset when it goes “off script.” Now that I am past 25, I just ignore it tbh because I know she will never change and it doesn’t really have anything to do with me, but it still makes me sad.

Is anyone else’s mother like this?

My Dad texted me to ask how much money I have in my savings this afternoon.

He said he needed to know as a part of filing our annual tax returns… which aren’t due to be filed until end of the year anyway, so I’m not even sure if this was true?

I am a 30 year old woman and my Dad has his accountant handle my tax return each year (same for my Mum and adult sister).

Whenever that time of year comes around, when he asks how much money I’ve made, my stomach is in knots knowing that it won’t be enough to impress him.

When I’ve said I’d like to handle things myself in the past, he has spiralled into paranoia and accused me of trying to hide things from him. He also threw in allegations of financial abuse against my partner for good measure.

I don’t want to answer him. I’m never doing well enough by his standards, so I can either tell the truth and be torn apart, lie and feel like a fraud, or ignore the question which will instigate paranoia and suspicion from him.

My partner and I are running our own business which is going fairly well, but it took time for us to get here, as it does with any business starting out.

For the first couple of years, we admittedly did struggle, but did our best to persevere and stay afloat, whilst also battling adversity in other areas.

During this time, it was almost impossible to set any boundaries with my Dad, who wanted to know all of the intricate details of our business and financial situation. He made me feel like a total failure when he pressured me into admitting that I didn’t have any real savings back then.

I know it was mostly because he cares about me, but I also feel like he ties his self worth to his financial success, and so has to see anyone who is not doing well financially as an abject failure. Therefore, the realisation that I, as his daughter, could fall into that category, was too much for him.

Now, our business is doing well, but it is exhausting to feel constantly scrutinised by someone from afar, as if they’re holding their breath just waiting for you to be revealed as a failure.

My Dad has done well to be very successful in life, and has been generous with me, our immediate and extended family. I’m very aware of and grateful for this, so I don’t feel as if I have a right to ask him to butt out of my finances now.

But is it fair for me to feel like this question is an invasion of privacy? My partner says it’s not normal for a parent to ask this of an adult daughter. I agree, but I know my Dad would throw everything he has provided for us in my face and accuse me of being ungrateful if I point this out.

I’m trying my hardest to be independent right now - moving out at 30 felt like an act of treason for leaving his orbit. I just don’t know if I’m right to feel this way, or if I’m a complete brat. I’m constantly confused by swinging from rage to crushing guilt.

hey all,

i am 16 yrs old and ive realized this past year that my parents are irritating me so badly. they’re always so touchy when i want space, they always want to talk when i don’t, and if i try to establish boundaries or say i don’t want to do those things they consider me rude or disrespectful. spending time with them feels like a chore now, which makes me feel sick to say but it’s true.
when i was younger, i treated them as gods. i tried to be a good kid. i obeyed everything they said, took their views as above others, and shared everything because I thought it was the right thing to do.
but as i grow older, i find myself disagreeing a lot more. a lot of their views are flawed. they control my self expression to an extent, and looking back, when i thought i was gay and/or transgender and shared it with them, they shut it down pretty fast (“no, you’re not”). and i want to keep things to myself, but that doesn’t happen. they get mad when i don’t share. and for some reason, im still not really sure why, i find myself increasingly eager to separate myself from parts of my childhood. idk if thats related to the above. i’ve always struggled with identity, too.

anyways, im wondering if this has to do with enmeshment? or am i just, idk, being a dick?

I've always hated my mother and have never really had a word to describe her behavior. Narcissism seemed like it fit in some ways, but other ways didn't. This mother's day was absolutely horrible, so once I got home I started researching and stumbled upon the word "enmeshment."

Oh my god. This describes EVERYTHING I have been experiencing for the past 37 years. Every single thing my mother does that I can't stand. I finally have a word for it. I finally feel not completely alone. I finally have something to talk to a therapist about for the first time ever.

Some examples of her behavior:

-Growing up I had zero privacy or boundaries. I was not allowed to close the door to my room. She would barge in and rummage through my trash looking for things to be upset about. She would open every piece of mail addressed to me, which she still does to this day if something happens to be sent to her house.
- She chose every activity I did as a child. I was never able to find out what things I was interested in because everything was decided for me. When I tried to tell her I hated these activities she would force me to do, she would be like "what are you talking about, you love them!!"
- Every single time I tell her I'm going to do something, she HAS to push back against it. She has to come up with some reason for why I'm wrong and shouldn't do the thing. If I say I want to drive to the lake today, she'll go "no you don't want to do that, there are potholes on that road!"
- To this day she tries to know every single bit of information about my healthcare and finances.
- Every time I come back from doing something she HAS to interrogate me to find out every tiny piece of information about what I did
- Every time I visit her she talks about how she wishes I lived closer to her, not-so-subtley hints that they are building new houses near where she lives, asks me about how my health insurance would work if I moved up there to be near her (I have never expressed interest in this ever)
- Has told me ever since I was a little kid that she expects me to live with her and take care of her when she's older
- Expects me to drop anything I'm doing immediately to help her any time she demands it
- Tries to manipulate me into doing things by asking questions like "oh don't you want to do ___ thing?" when clearly it's something SHE wants me to do

- acts like a hurt child any time I ever try to set any kind of boundary. I'll never forget the day when I changed my bank account password at age 23 so she couldn't see it anymore and she FLIPPED OUT

-expects me to text her all day, every day, and expects me to drive 4.5 hours to visit her at least once a month

-acts like my childhood was just absolutely perfect, it always felt like I was just an extension of herself and she was living vicariously through me, and she LOVED my childhood because she was in complete control. She will completely dismiss me any time I try to say anything negative about my childhood

-always demanded absolute perfection as a child so she could show me off and brag about her "genius son" to everyone she knew
- constantly yelled and screamed at me for my "bad grades" even though I got almost all As and some Bs
- I felt like I had to hide everything from her as a child because I had no idea what she would freak out about
- always felt like I had to mask, had to appear happy at all times, had to put up this fake facade to keep her happy. Had to act like the person she thought I was, not who I really was.

and many, many more things I'm not thinking of at the moment. I am so exhausted. I can't wait for this to finally be over.

It's like a punch in the gut when you realize that you were never first in their mind, maybe not even second or third, but they were first in your mind.

What makes it even harder is they didn't necessarily do it maliciously, they are just stuck in a loop and don't realize they are. It's not like they cheated for the thrill of it, they are stuck in something toxic. But it sure feels malicious when you are on the receiving end of it and it's hard not to be angry.

I fluctuate between anger and getting stuck in the past before they were so severely enmeshed and before I even knew how any of this works. When they were still a person with more of their own desires and personality. Although, looking back, the enmeshment was still there underneath.

Anyone else going through this anger/nostalgia phase right now? How are you dealing with it?

I moved to another city with my spouse a few hours away from family. We both received new job opportunities with higher pay and better commutes and were able to buy a home. It’s a safer, quieter, affordable life for us and we are happy here.

The level of guilt tripping and emotional manipulation we’ve faced in light of this move has been beyond my wildest imagination. My spouse is now the scapegoat that has taken me away from the family. I have been told that I abandoned them, I don’t have values, I’ve betrayed our family and the way I was raised, and I will suffer and be alone without them. These messages are being spread like wildfire across extended family and friends. Despite all this, I still call, I still visit, I still make an effort. And I get belittled, berated, yelled at, and guilt tripped, while receiving no effort for a loving relationship on their end.

I just learned about enmeshment and it feels like I’ve finally been seen and understood with regard to my family dynamic. Years of not having the space or freedom to develop my own personality and identity outside of the family system because of my label as the compliant child and peacemaker. If you go against the grain, display any kind of independence, disagree with the opinions of the system, make decisions that the system disapproves of, or don’t have physical proximity, then you are apparently undeserving of love and a place at the table. It is very hard to accept the idea that love will be withdrawn if you don’t comply.

I’m working with a therapist to deal with the aftermath of recognizing this reality. I really just want to stop feeling the intense guilt and shame of not being who they want me to be, and finally focus on creating my own life and identity outside of that system.

A few years ago, my husband's father stormed into the garage where I was minding my own business and getting my kids into a stroller and began yelling at me and falsely accusing me of something. My husband understands and accepts that these are facts that happened and agrees that the accusations are false. (His father has a habit of these things.)

The other day, we started couples therapy. My husband referred to this incident as an "altercation" between his father and me.

I'm so frustrated that he repeatedly reframes situations where his parents choose to do something to me that hurts as "disagreements" or "altercations" or otherwise makes it seem like it's mutual instead of just his parents being the aggressors while I am just trying to survive in my own home.

Hello all, I am a 28 year old female who has been dealing with a lot of stress and anxiety lately because of my mom (56 yr old). I have been reading a lot about enmeshment so I thought my situation would get better feedback here. Sorry if this is long.

All my life since I was a child, my mom has dealt with anxiety and depression. I remember when I was young (around 6/7 yrs old) I would wake up in the middle of the night to my mom at the edge of the bed crying and having panic attacks. I would sit next to her and just be there by her side while she would try different breathing techniques to calm herself down. That went for a couple of years until my mom got a call from school letting her know she would need to take me to a psychologist because I was experiencing anxiety and nervousness due to her being alone at home, since my dad would work all day being a truck driver. Ever since then, my mom tried to become better and overcome the anxiety and depression.

When I turned 20 yrs old, I was still living at my parents house, I came out to them as gay and let them know I had a relationship. They of course were supportive, however, when I started bringing my girlfriend around or hanging out with her, my mom would treat her with passive-aggressive comments and would try to control everything I did and where I went with my gf. Eventually over time everything changed and she apologized to my gf and now loves her.

Fast forward to now, I have been stressed, anxious and guilty lately because my mom has been having health issues regarding her thyroid, to which she has gone to multiple doctors and they all tell her its the dosage of the medication she takes that they need to adjust. She has been feeling anxious, jittery, with taquicardia, palpitations, can’t sleep. I have gone to therapy before due to anxiety and boundary setting, so she usually calls me for advice on how to soothe her anxiety. This started happening around 2 months ago, but it has gotten worse the last 2 weeks because she has been calling literally everyday, and gets upset when I don’t pick up or tell her I’m busy. She makes comments like I don’t visit her enough, even though I visit her once a week, usually the weekend since my partner and I both have full time jobs. She also says I don’t call her enough, but I literally do not have the energy or time to do so, which is why I prefer to text her, but she wants to talk to me or see me everyday. I feel like I have no space for myself and that I owe my free time to her.

I know I don’t owe anything to no one, specially my free time. I just want to know how not to feel as guilty when setting those boundaries to her that I need space for myself. I just feel so guilty since I know that she doesn’t feel well.

I'm a daughter of a dad who was too enmeshed with his family of origin/parents and his sisters to ever show up fully in his marriage to my mom, but perhaps more painfully to even show up as a dad in my childhood. We're healing now but only after I essentially became a wreck of a person as a direct result of how I was parented by both my parents, and he didn't see the light until I got big enough and no longer cute that my aunties started going after me too.

I still carry the pain of feeling second, third, fourth best after so many adult women (mom, sisters, my own mom) and it feels a little bit humiliating that something as precious as being a child wasn't held as precious as it should be. I hate that I can relate to women who talk about being married to MEM (similar behaviors/attitudes) even as a daughter. Even after my dad changed, it was only after I was well into adulthood and so I was left feeling like the kid version of me still wasn't worth trying for and that I had to perform my pain in order for it to be heard.

I'm not sure if I'm articulating myself, but basically it's the pain of generational enmeshment that I can clearly see. Not only did I experience direct enmeshment before but I also had to carry the pain of being overshadowed by my own parent's enmeshment.

I think this is interesting and something you might relate to.

I think my mom manipulates through intense emotion... I have been trying to put my finger on why its so hard to talk to her and its because she wants you to feel what she wants you to feel... whether its to give her validation, to make her look good, to make you believe you need her, to make you see her struggle, to make you give what she needs emotionally, to make you spend more time with her, to make her look like a hero... whatever.

I think part of the reason i have been enmeshed with her is because she has used this tactic to make me love her as much as she loves me. She SHOOOOOWERS me with strong emotional "i love you" monologues, to get me to 1)feel loved 2)need her/want her 3)see her as a good person/mom 4)see her as my main channel of support 5)connection/closeness 6)get me to respond to her with the same emotional level so she feels all of those things from me.

So over the years... the constant theatrical love made me feel like i needed her to survive. I often described her as a complete and utter love bomber... that was her means of control as a narcissist... but i dont think its just love bombing... its her use of emotions in general to get whatever she needs. Everyone thinks "Thank God for Barb!!!!! she is sooo selfless, kind, loving!" She has learned to bribe people to see her a certain way with theatrical love. and the less you respond... the more theatrical and intense she becomes.

as ive gotten older, these conversations feel so flat. its like after my braind developed i realized how weird and over the top her love for me is. she is trying so hard to get something out of me when she does it. it makes me feel so flat emotionally, so when i respond its completely void of anything because i cant match her.

She also tells 30 year old stories to me and my cousin over and over and over again in so much theatrical detail to show how much of a hero she was, how much it effected her, how much of a victim she was, or how great she was in that moment... to try to prove something. These stories are long, and theatrical, and always shine a light on whatever she needs. Again, ive heard them hundreds of times, and she tells them like i have never heard them before, and her emotions while saying them are like it happened to her yesterday. She never just says.. "oh yeah like that time I broke ties with Lisa".... no, she has to tell the WHOLE story of the time she broke ties with Lisa. now the convo isnt about the previous thing... its about her experience with Lisa which is a 30-40 minute theatrical story everytime.

Also, if someone wrongs her (which doesnt happen often, she has trained people well).. she literally acts like she almost died. Like one time my younger cousin decided to play a little prank on her (it wasnt even that bad, she proabbly just got a little scared and embarassed). And she got so upset by it and acted as if she almost died. He had to talk on the phone for hours with her. she expected him to come over and apoloigize in person... and it was just so over the top. she just overly lectured him with that really hightened emotion. everyone now knows... you dont prank her... unless you want to feel like absolute garbage and take an hour out of your day to apologize and be lectured. (but she is allowed to prank others on like april fools and stuff)

She literally uses her emotion to get what she needs. if she can act EXTREMELY happy, sad, let down, suprised, betrayed, stunned, dissapointed... she can convince you of her perception and reject your own. Its so bizarre. because she clearly feels more about something that you, so you must be wrong right? its so weird.

I am severely enmeshed with one of my parents, actively breaking it down currently. I didn’t realise until well into my adulthood but now I realise how suffocating I must have been to my partners.

I would smother them, want to live inside their bones, need constant texting or reassurance, space felt like rejection, when they go out with their friends I would be annoyed. I essentially wanted their life to revolve around me subconsciously and I can understand how horrible that feeling is.

Has anyone noticed this about themselves?
Like why on earth do I think love means constant closeness

This is another enmeshment story I have. I'm middle aged now, so this was years ago.

It was junior or senior year of highschool. My friends and I had all recently become licensed drivers, and we finally had freedom to do all we wanted! It was any teen's dream. I always had a reasonable curfew and mostly just had to state when I'd be home so that no one was left worrying. I'd arrive home most weekend nights at a reasonable time like 10 or 11, and this was fine with my parents, as long as I said when I'd be home. I always stayed out of trouble and so did my friends. My parents knew that. My mother has a history of saying something is fine, but then guilting you for it anyway.

One night I came home floating on cloud nine simply by living a normal teenager's life- hanging out with friends without adult supervision. I walked in the door and my mom looked like she was in a catatonic state. She looked like she had just witnessed a horrific crime. I said, "What's wrong???" I was very worried something bad had happened. She said to me in a monotone voice, "Just make sure you spend time with me too."

That was it! Nothing had happened! She was just wallowing in her own misery and hinting that if I only I were around more, she'd be happy. It was the most covertly toxic message I had ever received, and totally confusing. Here I was, a newly licensed driver, hanging out with friends as teenagers do, coming home at reasonable hours, and never going out on weeknights, which I spent at home, and she had no answer for my "what's wrong" question other than hinting I should be spending EVEN MORE time with her. The way she looked, I thought something devastating had just occurred.

This sort of toxic behavior has continued into my 40s, along with many other covert toxic behaviors, and only very recently I started putting up boundaries when I started working with a therapist.

(When those things are not true.)

I am the spouse in this situation. This has been going on for our entire 8 month marriage. First he lied to his mother about us not living together; I told her the truth and chaos ensued. We eventually did stop living together due to the constant lying on his part.

He told her 5 months ago he is filing for divorce. We’ve continued spending time with each other and no one has filed. He has been unable to update his mother. He is seeing a Ken Adams preferred provider who is aware of the situation and said his next “goal” is telling his mother the truth. We are also seeing a Ken Adams preferred provider together. We are both 33 years old.

For brief context, my MIL is severely mentally ill, reactive, irrational, unpredictable, emotionally and verbally abusive, etc. and husband is severely enmeshed. Started seeing these therapists in January.

Is this normal, even in the context of enmeshment?