r/narcissism

How do I differentiate between the two?
I know people say, “If you think you’re a narcissist, you’re not” but this is a genuine question. I’m quite self aware of my character and my actions… I’m not a good person and I’m aware of that. My actions hurt people and I can’t find it in me to care- instead I’ll always find some way to justify myself even if it only makes sense to me. When I hurt someone and they express their pain I get extremely offended or disgusted and victimise myself like forever. Like I am aware of what I’m doing and my thoughts. When I cheat or sleep with someone’s partner, lie or manipulate people, I am aware that I am doing it and the pain it will cause, it’s not necessarily a subconscious act. I know it will hurt someone and that’s why I do it (because I know it’s wrong). People say narcissists don’t know or don’t acknowledge their narcissistic tendencies, but since I acknowledge my bad behaviour does it absolve me from being a narcissist and just makes me a bad person rather?
Genuine question…

It's not easy and not guaranteed for everyone, but with years of therapy and wanting to change npd can go into

remission, you can also watch self help videos on YouTube of npd on how to get better

Research this on Google npd remission meaning the traits do not affect your life as much and you can have a healthy relationship with others and yourself.

You would still have npd.

Second post so I am dispensing myself of the tests results (hope that's ok?)

I feel like I have a good cognitive empathy, I can play devil advocate quite well, I can accurately guess why a person would react a certain way and, in some case, predict their reaction.

It has been remarked upon a few times by other, so even if my perception is warped, I do have a good basis at least.

However, I am atrocious at putting that into practice! When I talk to a single person it's fine, I can be thoughtful, smart, sometimes even eloquent.

But as soon as we're three or more... Yikes, words that comes out of my mouth before I can stop it, bringing up special interest that I KNOW put people off, not knowing when to stop myself from talking ect ect.

It's like flunking a test when you ''should'' know all the answers. Maybe it's because of stress but the time I think about the right thing to say the moment has passed and I just spend the whole meal/event reacting to stuff.

(The worst is when people point out my answers are ''pre-programmed'', I know I could be better! I just can't seem to manage to reach it)

i am in my 20s, and for context i am currently getting treated by a psychiatrist and a therapist for a mood disorder, even tho it seems to them that i also present some cluster b personality traits (they already told me that for multiple reasons).

for all of my life, i've never thought there was anything inherently 'wrong' with my personality. in fact, for most of my teenage years and young adulthood i often felt 'victimized', misunderstood and demonized. my peers often described me as 'too emotional' but at the same time 'too cold', self-centered, selfish, jealous and controlling. some might also say i'm full of myself, conceited and so on.
i always thought everything was others fault, since in my head i was always the mistreated one.
this was until i last spoke to my psychiatrist.

during our last sessions with both him and my therapist, they made me realize some patterns in my behaviors that i've never even took in consideration before.

i've noticed that i'm not 'scared of abandonment'; i just cannot accept that someone might not be interested in me and acknowledge me as 'the best partner/friend they'll ever have', or worse: that they would be able 'to get over me'. i can't stand someone being ok with me not being in their life anymore.
i find myself to be one of a kind and usually charming, and when someone doesn't notice that i instantly get irritated.
all of these things have caused extreme episodes of anger and intense dysphoric mood.

in relationships (both platonic and romantic) i always want to be the one 'in control', i can't stand being the vulnerable or fragile one. i am revengeful and i want people to chase me and recognize that they 'need' me.
i don't believe in true connections with people, and i value success way more than i do for human connections.

my list could go on and on. for what it's worth, i'm getting better now and i feel like i'm 'unlearning' some patterns and behaviors that i now know weren't really healthy.

i'm writing this down only out of curiosity. i'll obviously still continue to go to therapy to see 'where this is going', but i thought that maybe i could find some advices or some opinions here, without getting judged (or at least, i hope so)

>Abstract

>Narcissism is a personality trait with far-reaching individual, social, and societal consequences. Thus, it is important to understand the sources of individual differences in this trait. Existing hypotheses on the development of narcissism have focused on familial and parental environments that act to make siblings in a family more alike. However, the relative importance of shared environments as opposed to other environmental and genetic sources is still unclear. Using a large extended twin family design, we found that parents’ and children’s narcissism scores were correlated, but this association was entirely genetically driven. Across age and measures, genetics and individual-specific environmental factors each explained 50% of the variance in narcissism, and there was no evidence of environmental sources shared within families. This finding calls for a fundamental shift in the search for the origins of narcissism, including extra-familial environmental factors (e.g., educational and occupational pathways, experiences with peers, and romantic partners).

I might have used the wrong tag it’s either that one or a discussion and opinion tag that’s right for this idk

I recently discovered what narcissism is and I extremely strongly relate to most of the symptoms or traits about it, specifically the desperation for attention/admiration, the insecurity, and the ego problem (the thinking I’m better and that other peers are worse) based on intelligence (cerebral narcissism). I also think there’s some small manipulative things as well. I also have a lot of jealousy/envy going along with the desperation for attention, but I don’t actively want everyone else to fail I just want to do/be better and I don’t get any joy or satisfaction from other people failing (only from me succeeding)

However I told my therapist and he pointed out that I don’t think I’m always right or incapable of being wrong and that alone makes me not a narcissist.

But I still think the other parts I do resonate with fit me better than anything else I have found so I want to know what this means for me. I am still researching and learning about it more and more but I am unsure with that so I wonder what other people think

I have noticed many a times narcissismn qualities/tendencies, and I just don't like that,

Is there a guide to go from narc to no narc.

Genuinely not trying to start anything, just something I've been chewing on.

It feels like every ex, every difficult coworker, every parent who set a boundary wrong ONE time gets slapped with "narcissist" now. And I get it, there's real awareness happening around narcissistic abuse that wasn't there 10 years ago, that's a good thing.

But I've also noticed people using it as a way to avoid looking at their own patterns. Like it's easier to say "I dated a narcissist" than "I kept ignoring red flags" or "I have a pattern of picking emotionally unavailable people."

Not saying real narcissistic abuse isn't real, it absolutely is. Just wondering where people draw the line between "this person has NPD-level traits" vs "this person was just selfish/immature/a bad match for me."

Curious what you all think, especially anyone who's actually studied this vs just lived it.

Like, I always viewed (more or less daydreamed) myself as extremely important to others. Like, I constantly fantasize about how every girl I meet is in love with me. Even female friends, which absolutely disgusts me that I think like this. I always viewed myself as a main character of sorts and would feel bad if I didn’t appear as an interesting enough protagonist. And I can’t help but think I’m this amazing person even though I’m really just… okay. And I have this sense of entitlement that good things should happen to me bc I do good things for others. Don’t get me wrong, I genuinely enjoy doing good things for people. It’s just I can’t help but think I should be appreciated for my good efforts. It’s kind of a devil on my shoulder thing. I literally hate my brain and I hate living like this.

I know it’s a lot to read 😂😅 but I feel like this entry describes my thinking pretty well.

I care so much what others think, that it physically hurts. I’m so extremely sensitive but I keep it inside to protect my image, as apathetic and uncaring. I come here as a way to cope with judgement from others. I feel like it might make me feel better. I know I shouldn’t care and I understand why I shouldn’t care but I still care. It’s not logical. It’s a feeling and my way of dealing with that painful feeling is to try to understand and explain it. If I can understand it maybe it won’t hurt as much. I’ll try to twist it so I’m the good guy because if I’m the good guy there’s no reason to be upset. I cope by convincing myself of who I want to be. The reason I’m upset is because of my ego. I’ll get mad over something so small, which then reminds me how self important my way of thinking is. I don’t matter and I know I don’t matter but I’m programmed to care. I care what people think and need their approval. But why does it have to be programmed so deep inside. I don’t want to care, I know I shouldn’t care, I try to make meaning of my caring, but in the end whether or not the rest is true, I still care. And it hurts

I definitely have personal issues that I need to work on but the thing is, is that I’ve become so attached to them and identify so strongly with them that I don’t even want to change them. I feel like if I fix it in silence no one will ever know I had anything wrong and if no one knows I ever had anything wrong no one will know what I went through. I want them to know that my “laziness” or “inaction” through the years has been pathological. I’m aware that my issues don’t necessarily justify my inaction, it’s just that I care less about the consequences of my inaction than what others think about my inaction. It all comes down to what others think because I have such an unstable sense of self worth. I’m constantly having imaginary conversations and replaying old conversations with people that I respect trying to win them over. I value others thoughts so far above my own that even when I am thinking for myself it’s through an imagined conversation with someone else. I feel like my thoughts need a stamp of approval from others even when I’m just thinking critically by myself. I’ll curate a character for them to make judgements on me that can convince me of who I want to be. Simply because I see what they see in me and it becomes what I see in myself.

One thing I know for sure is that I treat pride, self absorption, and any narcissistic traits as sins. In my mind it’s a moral failing to have any of them, so I’m writing this partially to convince myself that I don’t. Not only am I assessing myself for these qualities, but I’m also assessing others. Because Im so insecure, I’ll compare myself to these people, and if they their smart, unpretentious, and humble I’ll feel worse about myself. I don’t participate in the conversation as much as I use others as a reflection. During something like a class lecture where there’s no pressure to respond, I’ll listen to the professor not out of curiosity but as a way to evaluate myself through comparison. Everything that’s happening around me is about me, and I project that subconscious belief onto what I believe others are thinking when interacting with me.

We've been friends for over six years. I can't say I love him; my feelings for him are quite unstable. I hate our conversations when it comes to money. He has more, but he's financially illiterate, so he constantly asks me for loans. I take advantage of this, telling him he can't manage his finances. I also often refuse to help him, citing the fact that I haven't repaid my money several times. I especially enjoy turning him down when he's in dire need of money. I feel superior in this relationship; it truly gives me a certain energy. I need to know that I'm better than him. When he tells me about his plans, I find it extremely unpleasant to listen to. He's far from stupid and relatively smart, so I'm sure he'll achieve some success in life. But during such conversations, I subconsciously try to tease him, to prove that he's not ready for it yet, that he won't succeed. Something happened recently: he was riding a scooter and crashed into a car. He had to pay about 40% of his salary for the damage. To top it all off, it all happened on his birthday. When he told me this, I was extremely happy. I didn't feel an ounce of compassion for him at that moment. I was glad he was weaker than me: he lost control (perhaps I think I'm luckier and a better driver) and suffered financial ruin, spending a significant portion of the money on car repairs. I sincerely want him to have, if not bad, then certainly worse than me. I don't want him to grow up behind me. I'd really like to start a company and get him a job as my assistant, finally letting him know that I'm better at everything. I don't want his life to go downhill and fail, but I also rejoice in every failure of his, which serves as confirmation of my superiority. Very often, I simply hate him with all my soul. But he is my closest and only friend.

I know this is a long read 😅 but I feel like this journal entry displays my thinking very well

I’m ugly, straight up. My entire facial structure is collapsed. I look fine from the front but my face is continuing to objectively worsen on the left and it has been for the last 6 years. It’s been going on for longer but I’ve only been aware of it for 6 years. Aware but doing nothing. I know I should go to the doctor or tell someone about it but I’m too insecure about how insecure I am that I can’t tell anyone. They’ll figure out that I’m self centered and they’ll look at me different. If they look at me different I look at myself different. The amount of distress that my ugliness is causing me is so not worth it and I know that. It’s just one aspect of my appearance and it’s objectively very important but I can’t see beyond it nor do I want to. It’s the only thing that matters and I’ll do anything to change it except go out and change it. I’ll beat myself up for not taking action but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m not. I would’ve looked fine but I mouth breathed and now everything is fucked up. There’s nothing I can do to get back what I would’ve looked like in another life where I had proper habits and developed normally. Even the perfect combination of surgeries with the very best surgeon can only give me so much improvement. I used to research this all day. It’s not like I’m actually going to go to a different country pay 50,000 dollars that I don’t have and to fix my face. I’m not even secure enough in myself to tell anyone anything that I struggle with. I can’t live knowing they know that I’m getting facial surgery. That changes people’s perception of me. I can’t even go to the doctor to stop the issue from worsening because I’m to scared of what they might think when I ask and tell them my issue. Do I even know what the issue is fully? I’ve done years and years of research but I’m still uncertain. It’s complicated. How do I even go about making an appointment? Where do I go? Do I take the time to research? I won’t be able to afford it anyway. I won’t be able to ask anyone for money because I’m too insecure to tell anyone about it. Ok, I’ll just have to get my life together and start earning more money. But… I don’t have the motivation because the only thing that matters is how fucked up my face is. Why do I care? I care because I care what others think of me and people form opinions based on how you look but people also care if I care so I have to pretend not to care while caring deeply.

I understand that I use dramatized language and make unnecessarily long convoluted points to express my thoughts but does recognizing it, and showing that I’m aware of it, make me less pretentious? I’d say it makes me more pretentious because in trying to prove to the reader I’m not pretentious because I’m aware of my pretension, it becomes even more pretentious. But, explaining this becomes another layer of pretension. And explaining this does too. It’s never ending. If my intent isn’t to express but to impress it becomes a game of chess; shit, that line was pretty impressive. SMH. Also, I wouldn’t say it’s inherently negative to put on a performance. Everyone does it to a certain extent and it’s impossible to write anything with complete detachment from the ego. I guess it’s a spectrum and where you fall on that spectrum uncovers the true intention behind your writing and how it’s received. As the writer though, being proud of what you’re writing is not mutually exclusive to it being pretentious but it’s easy for that pride to seep through. To be honest what makes this so pretentious is that it signals a level of self importance that warrants a long and thorough psychological evaluation of myself. The writing doesn’t escape me. Me is what’s important. I’ll tell you right now that most of what I write becomes a game of defense, against an imagined, overly critical reader. I don’t even understand why I defend myself, I just do it because it’s habitual. Ok, and now the decision comes. Do I add this here as disclaimer? If I do, it’s just to avoid criticism in what I’m about to write, so naturally, I should add it. I want to be vulnerable without the risk. Phew, I did it! I made this piece of writing completely bulletproof. Wait, no, never mind. I need to add one more thing. I believe if I show and explain to you how deeply self aware I am of my pretension I can avoid actually figuring out why and changing it. Ok, I’ve reached it; maximum self awareness, now you’re not allowed to judge me. Wait… by trying to reach maximal self awareness I’ve actually just become self absorbed distorting my self perception. Does admitting this make me self aware? I give up.

I fail to look deeper into the type of person I truly am. What are the true motives behind my actions? I used to see myself in a positive light because I overvalued the person that I was on the outside and undervalued the person/thoughts on the inside. I’m a nice person not from the kindness in my heart, but because I fear judgment from others and am dependent on external validation. Deep down I know this so to combat it I try to be a more natural and authentic but focusing on coming across as authentic makes me inauthentic. It’s all just a performance to please the people around me because my self-worth is based on other people’s opinions of me. I’ve spent so much time performing for myself and others—being the person they want me to be—that I’ve lost myself.

I overvalue honesty with myself because it inflates my sense of moral superiority. It’s not just honesty, though. I get so hyper-focused on a few characteristics and ways of thinking (honesty, authenticity, self-awareness, etc.) that make up what I believe makes a good and moral person, that it’s hard for me to look beyond that and see myself for who I fully am. This makes me narrow-minded about the way I judge myself and others. Also, I’ll admit uncomfortable truths to myself, such as being insecure, being pretentious, being ugly, and not being the smartest. I go over these thoughts over and over again in my head, thinking that admitting these truths to myself makes me a more virtuous person, but in reality it’s just my ego disguised as self-awareness. Even though some of what I said might be true, it’s all just a way to avoid and cope with things about myself that I don’t really want to think about or deal with in the real world, and in that way, I’m hiding from self-improvement and staying in a cycle of self-pity. I’ve also mixed up being honest with myself with being hard on myself because I’ve learned that people view it as humble, which fuels the pride I have in my false humility.

I understand that intellectualizing my emotions like this, without feeling them, is unhealthy, but I’ve created an identity out of doing it, where I feel superiorly “self-aware.” The problem is that intellectualizing is just a form of suppression, and what I’m writing here about suppressing my emotions is itself a way of suppressing them. It’s just that I’m so proud of suppressing them because it makes me feel like I’m a stronger person for it. It’s the lie I tell myself to keep me sane and unable to change. Also, I’ll tell myself that the intellectualizing and rumination is a sign of higher intelligence, trying to convince myself that I’m not as dumb as people say. I take what people say as the “truth.” I fail to see that peoples judgements are surface level and that’s not bad. It’s self important to think that others are spending enough time to make proper/accurate judgements on my character.

I care so much what others think. It physically hurts. I’m so sensitive but I keep it all bottled up inside. I come here as a way to cope with judgement from others. I feel like it might make me feel better. I know I shouldn’t care and I understand why I shouldn’t care but I still care. It’s not logical. It’s a feeling and my way of dealing with that painful feeling is to try to understand and explain it. If I can understand it maybe it won’t hurt as much. I’ll try to twist it so I’m the good guy because if I’m the good guy there’s no reason to be upset. I cope by convincing myself of what I want to be. The reason I’m upset is because of my ego. I’ll get mad over something so small and it reminds me how self important I am. I don’t matter and I know I don’t matter but I’m programmed to care. I care what people think and need their approval. But why does it have to be programmed so deep inside. I don’t want to care, I know I shouldn’t care, I try to make meaning of my caring, but in the end whether or not the rest is true, I still care. And it hurts.

I have the belief that I’m too dumb to express myself in the real world so I do it here pretentiously, to convince myself I have the ability and to cope with never actually trying. I’ve put so much value into how intelligent I am that it becomes the determinant for my self-worth—along, of course, with people’s opinions of me, but they go hand in hand.
Nevertheless I’ve learned that they highly value intelligence so it becomes something I value too. I’ve learned that the hard way by being ridiculed, judged, and shamed for it my entire life. As a result it’s consumed my thinking. It’s distorting how I interact with the world and the people around me. I believe they put the same extreme emphasis on it that I do and are judging me for it. Every decision, every word, and every action becomes an assessment of my intelligence so I stay quiet. It’s easier. I shouldn’t though because even if I am a little slow it shouldn’t define me as a person. There’s nothing to do about it though, so obsessing over it is useless. Intelligence should not be the goal; it should be used to reach the goal, but if it becomes the goal, it’s purely out of ego. It’s impossible to escape the ego though. I keep running from it but fail to realize that it’s something I can’t run from. It’s a part of me. Even in writing this, I can’t escape it.

The more time I spend trying to become self-aware, the more self-absorbed I become, to the point I can’t see beyond myself. I’ve turned self-discovery into self-indulgence. I need to put the mirror that I’m always holding in front of my face away—not for others necessarily, but for myself. The stupidity of this writing is that I write about what I need to change in myself while pretentiously enacting what I say not to do. I live an extremely privileged life, and when someone like me has no reason to suffer, they create it for themselves. Am I writing this for myself? Maybe I was at first, but not anymore. It’s a performance for validation. I’m writing this with the hope that maybe one day someone close to me reads this and responds with sympathetic surprise. I want to be seen. Whether this writing is healthy or not, I’m unfortunately proud of it, and I want people to give me the validation that I crave.
I’m proud of it because I think it’s intelligent but it’s not as intelligent as I believe. It’s just a mind observing itself taking notes on what it’s watching. This writing doesn’t prove I’m I intelligent it just proves I want to be intelligent.

I recently had a breakthrough where I fully believe I am a covert narcissist with comorbid BPD.

After a family disagreement my mother’s friend reemed my ass because she told me “You were abused your whole life by your grandiose narcissist father only to become to a huge piece of shit like him. You deserve every bad thing that ever happens to you.”

And, she’s not wrong? Every situation I have ever been in I have somehow been the victim and I’m starting to wonder if I’m the problem? I literally just had an MA just because I was afraid to die in childbirth again, and when my son was born I really didn’t have much to do with him for the first two months of his life I resented and blamed him for what happened to me. I don’t think I do anymore but my behavior from then greatly disturbs me.

When anyone yells at me or punishes me for a mistake, I tend to self punish and internalize a lot of self hatred. Recently I was told both by my and my husband’s family that this is self pity, and that I do this to be manipulative, attention seeking, and to cause drama. I had a medical emergency a week ago that my MIL almost didn’t allow me to get assistance for because she fully believed I walked around without pants on and free bled to make a fake emergency and get back at her. I actually didn’t want to go because since making this discovery I have denied myself basic care, and comforts because I truly do not believe I deserve them.

I used to try to approach things with kindness and a sense of justice and I no longer even know if I was ever kind? I can be very aggressive at times so maybe I’m really just a bully who thought she was right? Which leads me to believe I deserved my father’s abuse, the domestic violence I experienced as a teen, my COCSA experiences, and the bullying I went through grades K-12. I can even almost justify it! I think these people had the intuitive thought on the type of person I’d become and knew ahead of time I deserved everything that happened.

Right now I’m on the completely wrong med, I’m on Zoloft, but I want to quit meds altogether because I don’t think I should allow myself to get better. I’ve had thoughts of abandoning my family, mostly because I believe it’d be better if I wasn’t in my family’s life anymore. I do not even express feelings because as I said, I realize I am very manipulative and I keep my feelings to myself to avoid attention seeking and making dramas.

I no longer know what the purpose of this post is I’m just afraid I have both and I’m very scared of being a bad person and of abusing my son. I think my father was different, he was a malignant with a grandiose point of view, but nonetheless I’m still afraid of abusing my son.

It should be mentioned I do have manic periods, some are really bad and some are not as bad but the common theme is thinking myself better than everyone. I’m just scared of diagnosis because then I’d be forced to confront the fact that I’m probably not a good person.

Today, a bike loses its balance in front of me, and I felt no urgency to help them. Instead, I just went away from them .

The first time I can remember doing this is at about three to get my parents attention I remember saying things like “I don’t love you anymore or telling them stuff like you only love me this much 🤏”

I’m the 2nd oldest a well sometimes when I tell people how I’ve acted they will assume I’m the youngest or maybe the only female in the home but no it was even 3 boys 3 girls mom and dad

anyways my parents split when I was about 13 and thats when i realized I don’t have to listen to anyone anymore , they split on bad terms so for a while there they didn’t communicate and I used it to my advantage engaging in really risky behaviors running away with grown men , at the time I always thought I was smarter drinking and smoking cigarettes all that fun stuff like I’m so grown up I can hang with these people and they don’t know I’m a kid, but I’m sure they did half of them were probably creeps.
anyways so this is where my running away began I like to disappear and scare my family that something bad has happened to me in stead of admitting to all the bad things I was doing

I’m now in my mid 30s and married with 2 children if my own 16&4 and I still pull stunts like this all if I get confronted about something that 9/10 times is true …

but as of lately I really wanna get help and not feel so attacked anytime any of says or asks anything of me ?

Hi all, I mostly wanted to introduce myself to the community and share my story.

I grew up with narcissistic parents, so I was taught, implicitly, that love had to be earned. By the time I was 14, I had already lost any real sense of who I was — I was getting used to wearing masks, and "fake it till you make it" became my motto. I overachieved at everything, so I didn't feel anxiety; everything looked manageable, and every time I raised the bar, I somehow cleared it. The downside was that I couldn't be alone with myself. I felt mostly apathetic, and rage was the only emotion that ever really broke through.

Then being around people started to feel exhausting. I never knew which mask to wear, and my mind was constantly working overtime just to figure out how to behave. That's when I started struggling with alcohol.

Around 20, between university and a dance career that wasn't working out, I doubted my abilities for the first time, and after a disappointing relationship, I fell apart completely. That's when I started psychotherapy for the first time — but it was cut short by COVID.

That period was strange. On one hand, I started enjoying solitude for the first time — it was a relief not having to perform for someone else's approval. On the other, I felt a deep emptiness underneath it. After COVID, I became almost unable to function in public, constantly feeling judged for everything, even for using the bathroom. That's when I went back into therapy, and we mostly worked on my relationships with others.

My master's degree was the hardest period of all. My undiagnosed IBS spiked, I started having panic attacks once or twice a week, and depression set in. It felt like reality was finally showing me my real limits. It took me a while to stop seeing that as an obstacle on my way to some imagined greatness, and start seeing it for what it actually was.

I'm only now realizing that after taking off those masks, I never actually figured out who I really am underneath them. That's what I'm trying to build now.