r/EstrangedAdultChild

My mom is literally the most immature person I've ever met. Last three times I saw her, she made me feel suicidal afterwards, and last time she saw me she didn't even get permission to see me on that day.

Called her up to tell her how I feel. I feel like explained myself pretty goddamn well, telling her I was suicidal and wanting to self harm, and literally the first thing she wants to do is argue with me, explain that she HAS to visit sometimes to maintain the house. Like, bitch, I just told you I wanted to kill myself and you're worried about that.

I know exactly what I want to do, and that is to get a restraining order immediately. However, society frowns on this, and I hesitate for that reason.

Literally just want to cut myself right now, someone help me.

Hey everyone.

I (30 M) found out yesterday that my estranged father passed away back in December. I am estranged from my mother and sisters as well, and not one of them felt like I deserved to know.

My relationship with my dad was great until the age of 12 when my parents divorced. He began drinking heavily and became verbally abusive. I ended up becoming homeless at 16 because of this.

The last time I saw him was about 12 years ago. I had a really bad panic attack at work so they sent me to the ER. He was my emergency contact at the time so he was called. He showed up to the ER drunk and screamed at me that I was a "loser" and would never amount to anything. Naturally, I cut off all communication with him.

I feel so awful about this. I don't regret the lack of communication because why would I ever put up with behavior like that? But I still feel this horrible sense of sorrow and I am unsure why. I have so many good memories of him before the divorce but the person he became was a completely different dad. I knew this day would come but I am surprised that I feel this way.

I am 33 (f) single parent. Went no contact around 10 years ago. My parents were 16/18 when they had me. My dad was always "trying" and as a child i absolutely loved him. I was also scared of him. He was diagnosed bipolar and an alcoholic even before i was born.

He was abusive to my mother while pregnant with me, and physically abusive to every woman in his life. He was emotionally abusive, would steal from me, and a string of a whole bunch of other shit. Think frank gallagher from shameless and that was him. Ill probably go rewatch the series and bawl my eyesout at the end.

He has tried to reach out 2x in the last 10 years and both times he put me down, told me to change my name, and what a terrible person i was for cutting him off and how when he dies we wont ever know. My stepmom contacted me 2019 to ask me to make ammends and i told her i would not unless he reached out and not her Well... it happened and today is my birthday when i found out.

He died on monday and i found out today. Cirrhosis. My estranged half brother (who i have never met-mind u a convicted SO), messaged me 2x last week asking to call him and offered no context or urgency. Come to find out he was on his death bed and i could have possibly seen him but i ignored the messages. Father told step brother that he didnt want us knowing.

Im so FUCKING PISSED. I will never get the closure i want. I would have taken my child to meet him on his death bed. I would have said im sorry for things that werent even my fault. I would have told him how much i loved him as a child. I would have said i forgave him for everything and i feel ROBBED AND ANGRY THAT THIS WAS THE LAST FUCK U TO ME. Ive been crying on and off all day. I just feel so much guilt.... so much anger.. so much grief.

I wish he had told me he was sick so i could see him or that my half brother would have told me it was an emergency... im devestated over a man i knew 23 years, nd held a grudge for 10. Why couldnt he be a good father to me? I hate this disease and mental illness. Its not fair. Idk what to do... im trying to stay strong for my toddler.

Now im alone, my family was with me all day.. now i can truly cry with boogers running down my face. How can the same man who beat my mother be the first man to show me how to love. He showed me genuine love as a child... or so i thought. Im just so heartbroken. He was not a good person. Scammer, abuser etc. But.... he named me... he loved me more than himself or so i thought. Ive never felt the love of a parent the way i did from him as a child. I hate him. I love him. I forgive him.

i (f25) recently went no contact with my parents as they are severe narcissists. how do you deal with the guilt and shame that follows? i feel so guilty for hurting them this way, but my support system has been consistently telling me that it was the right decision.

i have them blocked, but i also am feeling an intense paranoia that they might try to find me in person, or seek me out in other ways. how do you deal with that paranoia? it’s the thing that is making me most anxious right now. they don’t live super close to me, but could reasonably take a ~5-6 hour drive to see me. i realize that sounds a little farfetched that they might appear but it’s something i am massively paranoid about, and i won’t be able to move for about a month or so

For historical context, the person I was originally estranged from is my father. He is narcissistic and emotionally abusive. He’s been this way my whole life and finally at 40 years old I decided I’d had enough when he told me I was “ruining our whole family”. I’ve been NC with him for about a year and a half but my relationships with my mother and sister have also deteriorated since then because they choose to ignore his bad behaviors and expect me to “just let it go”. “He’ll never change” is their argument basically.

Essentially, everyone in my family is messed up in some way or another and it all stems back to generations of people putting up with narcissistic, controlling, abusive people. I refuse to get stuck in that cycle so I removed myself from it. I recently packed up and moved thousands of miles away.

Unfortunately, my grandmother has just passed after a steady decline into Alzheimer’s. I was very close to her during my childhood & early adulthood, less so after I had children. For the past few years, she had forgotten who I was but I would still visit a few times a year. We had a kinship and I feel like she was one of the only non toxic people in my family.

Now I am struggling with whether or not to fly back for the funeral. It’s very expensive and I’d also need to get a hotel and a rental car because I don’t have anyone to stay with while I’m there. I’ve tried contacting my parents to offer condolences but they are ignoring my calls/texts. My sister recently blew up at me and called me a whole host of terrible things because I didn’t call my mom on Mother’s Day. I have a TON of anxiety about having to see everyone in my family at the same time. And I have no idea how they’ll treat me if they refuse to even text me back. I’ve discussed it with my therapist, my husband, and a friend, all of whom seem to think it would be perfectly fine if I hold my own celebration of life for her on my own here at home. But I guess I’m asking redditors because I want the opinion of an unbiased party? I’d love to know your thoughts.

My mom did something very minor and I want to break the no contact (they cut me off when I said I wanted our relationship to be more even and it felt one sided) but the more I think about it I just want to feel justice to air my grievances/“go off”. It feels like reaching out about what she did is just poking the bear and won’t end productively.

Sometimes I want to go back to my emotionally immature roots & dump all of my feelings on her but I’d be crushed by the response.

I’m gonna make this the shortest possible
I’m 22 years old
From california
Was brought here since I was 2 years old, I didn’t choose to be here but i grew up here and this country is all i know
Family is a devoted Jehovah witness family, I have absolutely no support group because of this religious group
I am a queer guy, there is no way for me to one day be legal unless i marry another guy

The only thing i got going on is that I learned the carpet and flooring trade because of my dad . Next month im disappearing on a random night , early June, all the way to the other side of America, into Illinois
Im gonna be leaving with 5.5k of savings, I already have an inflatable mattress, kitchenware, my legal documents in a box, work tools

I’d rent a room and since I have a compact car, I’m hoping I can work under another subcontractor who works for a flooring company, that way I’d raise money for my own truck without needing to sell my very reliable car right now
And if it works out that way, when i go so solo on the job
I’ll continue the prerequisites I never finished (that i payed out of pocket due to my status) for a cardiovascular tech program because i had forgotten that college is a dream for me. I still have dreams

I’m staying with a friend for the first few days while i search of a bedroom to rent fast. I made up my mind already, if i stayed i could’ve done college under my home but the mental anguish of being supressed of my real self is something i can’t handle anymore it feels like I’m rotting inside .

Recently a mass shooting happened in my partner's community and their family's friends died in the attack. I feel sick because the shooting was directly espoused by the people my brother listens to and to a lesser extent the rest of my immediate family. My parents and immediate family didn't even contact my partner asking if he and his family were okay. They just do not care - they haven't said anything in the group chat yet when Charlie Kirk died that's all that was going on in the family group chat for weeks. I hate them and I wish I didn't care about them (hate or love). I just wish I was indifferent to them. How do estranged children .. eventually cut off their family and stop caring for them?

Even in the past - they've done a lot of things such as:

- my brother masturbated using my used underwear and when my mom found out that I was telling the truth my mom said "well what do you want me to do about it?" And told me I needed to retrieve my own underwear and that she (the mom) would not buy new underwear so I should just wash my soiled (by their brother) underwear. I had to cope by hiding my underwear and counting them.

- My mom tried to destroy their chance of education by putting up roadblocks (i have learning difficulties) that the mom didn't do to the other 3 children (such as she didn't pay for my schooling when she paid for my other siblings.

- She would try to only put grandma care on me and not the other siblings and would punish me by trying to get her to work in the garden for 8 hours because zoey didn't have a job during the summer (but my unemployed sister who was living at home without rent didn't have to do anything)..

- I would get threatened to be kicked out for not going to church and I was forced to sign an illegal housing contract.

- When i wouldnt have my tracker on my mom would call them 20+ times and take money each time I wouldn't answer. She drained my bank account overnight

- I was repeatedly bullied by my sister (as my sister would verbally berate me) and my mom would do nothing and it is a recognized problem by my dad and aunt and even somewhat acknowledged by other siblings

I don't know why the silence after the mass shooting from my family is killing me. I always said "I wish something could make it clear and that I could just cut them off" and now it has and I just feel defeated rather than relief. Maybe I always suspected they didn't have empathy but I always thought maybe they just didn't have empathy towards me not humans in general.

Venting here as I begin to reach out to my brother 9 months after he convinced my parents to block me and change the locks on their properties. I have been hard on my mother after taking her to therapy where she denied family secrets from my childhood, including a nanny’s CSA of my brother and me.

My recent messages to him are further below. They are not being responded to. First, though, I will share a little more context.

8 years ago, my brother appealed to my parents to remove me from their inheritance. Since then, I was diagnosed with ADHD. I did not trust it at first and so I got a second opinion. A year into taking medication, my parents and brother began to suggest I am using the mental health system to access and abuse stimulants. They declined to make the accusation out right when I asked them if they believe this, though last year in therapy my mother did finally admit she’s been looking at me as a pill addict.

My brother and I are in our forties and our parents are 54 years married in their 80’s. We are an upper middle class family from the north shore.

My brother is 20+ years sober from crystal meth after a troubling childhood defined by low expectations, an ADHD diagnosis, constant medication tweaks and unending therapy.

I am the neglected “normal one” who has always been able to make friends, move to new places, learn foreign languages, tell funny jokes, get good jobs, and appear upbeat.

In late 2020, I came to question how my mother could believe I was a manipulator pill abuser with no ADHD. The signs were there in childhood - room was always messy, I was either sleeping or bouncing off the wall in class, I procrastinated entire semesters of homework until given exceptions to complete it all in a week, and I have been notoriously poor at reconciling my own time and space.

The disconnect is my brother’s condition. They called it ADHD, and my markers did not match his. I discovered that this is because HIS markers, one of which was ADHD, match those of a child born with prenatal exposure to methamphetamine. Mom didn’t think she could get pregnant after some failed pregnancies and she took over the counter supplements sold to women for weight and appetite control.

I have been pressing my parents to come clean about this for the past 5 years and it has been ugly. My mother spent 4 years as a deer in headlights with her denial, expressing zero concern that my view of her changed and she lost my admiration. My father admitted all of it very briefly one night in 2022 before returning to the denial, telling me I lie to myself and do not live in reality.

There is a school of thought in ACA that says I should not be so charitable with my energy toward my family anymore, now that I can see who they/we are. This is a complete re-wiring, though, and the way I was raised does still serve me and work for me.

And ironically, they estranged me preemptively. My response was like if someone fired Donald Trump: “no, you have it twisted - I’m the one firing YOU!”

The family curse I have come to see is that we all hold others to higher standards than we hold ourselves.

I am pretty sure my brother has gotten my parents to make him the sole heir. And that’s fine. I have tools and a career he does not have, to generate money for myself.

All I want to be able to do is discuss this stuff with my family openly. And the more I want it, the more they retreat.

On May 17, 2026, at 11:27 AM, xxxxx xxxxx <********.****@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi *****,

I trust you are having a great May.

Life has changed for me since I learned I am a tool my parents use to revise history.

I had no business being born with how full our parents’ hands were with your condition (and at their age). Luckily, though, Mom was an only child determined to give her son a sibling.

I am working on forgiving myself for being born, for being my brother’s play toy, and for failing to see who we are until I’m of no use to my family anymore.

It is a blessing to have come this far on borrowed time. It is another blessing to learn to love through a series of denials, omissions, and lies.

To make amends with myself, though, I need to get past uncomfortable truths that continue to be attentively guarded by my family’s active dishonesty.

The denial is a constant reminder of how insignificant I am and have always been. Of how much waste of life I represent. The work in progress is to make my family’s denial not matter - and that is pretty dang tricky when ‘denial’ uses the same letters that spell my ******’s name!

For 4 decades, Mom told me how jealous of me you were - and why. I hope by now you are no longer jealous - or better yet that this was never the case!

I feel like you have been a very different person in your recovery than you are with me. You have remained distant, cold, and antagonistic toward me during adulthood - and I get it. I tempt you toward the past without even trying.

We have yet to make amends, *****. You have not made amends with me in your program and I have not made amends with you in mine.

Will you have a conversation with me about the information I learned about our family, *****? Information about you? Information that makes you a very special person instead of the screw-up my parents needed me to see you as?

It will move us closer to amends, just in case that is something that you really value.

You’ve got a big payday coming up either way. One you fully deserve.

Best regards,

****

On May 3, 2026, at 10:51 AM, xxxxx xxxxx <***.*****@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi *****,

I am unsure of how aware you are of the issues between our parents and me. I recognize that ‘unsure’ might be how you prefer I remain, though I prefer not to jump to that conclusion. It is just getting agonizing watching the clock tick.

Over 5 years ago, I came into information about our immediate family. It deeply impacted how I see our parents, how I see you, and how I see myself.

As I sought to communicate with our parents about this information, I saw them visibly threatened in ways I did not know were possible for them. I had believed our family to be incredibly progressive and open, and I did not let myself ever consider signs that we were not. I modeled myself after our parents as a trilingual proud Jewish professional determined to raise a family in a more just world. And I could never understand why this made them more worried than proud.

When it comes to how this (new-for-me) information relates to you, I have been careful to first address it with them, before any thought of engaging with you about it. The information is more directly pertinent to you than me, and to this day I cannot begin to understand what you know about it. I have no view into whether the denial I am experiencing is one person, two people, or three people deep.

This has been a very heavy burden to carry, though it is also one that my higher power only placed at my feet knowing that I now have the strength to carry it in ways that I did not prior to 5 years ago.

I do not believe I was meant to receive this information so that I can shed my family and move about the world free of my family’s influence. I am too broken-hearted for that to be it.

I do believe that our family has a rare opportunity to take the past out of hiding so that we can starve it to death. And finally heal.

I mention the above because this information is about as past as it gets. It dates back to our origin. It is from before either of us were born.

Will you have a conversation with me about this information, *****? It can be with a neutral professional therapist who has a series of 1:1 meetings getting to know each of us before we all 3 get together.  

No worries if you don’t want to do this, I’ll still find a way to share the information with you in time.

Love always,

******

Hi All,

I need advice please!

I've been NC with my entire family for 3 years. Now, I'm getting married in my hometown next year. A lot of people are telling me to "invite" them as "guests" to do the right thing. (Hometown is very traditional and religious!). The thing is, I'm not close to any of them and a lot has happened and there is no coming back from any of it. I also think it's weird and awkward since we haven't talked for years. I'm also worried that they might make this day as a reconcilliation party instead of my wedding!! IDK what to do and I really want to get married in our hometown with our close family and friends.

In society today so much of life is built on the idea that you have a family you can turn to. Not just for practical stuff like when you need an emergency contact, or financially, but that you have the emotional constitution to actually live your life. Even just the idea that if you are upset, you can call your mom, is such a relief whether you actually call her or not. That certainty forms a key part of your identity as a person, and your ability to connect with others. I find it so ironic then that the people who need connection the most suffer from having a disadvantaged ability to make them.

Family is supposed to be the key support network in society, to have deep bonds with, and to show up for each there no matter what. That level of dedication is acceptable, however, for friends its not and unless you find someone else who is estranged I think its quite difficult to find people who would want it to be. They have their family to do that for them, and to put that effort into an additional person on the same level would be a big task. It breaks my heart that I don't think I will ever feel the certainty that I know someone will show up for me. Its like being on a tightrope all the time. On top of that we're also supposed to act "normal" and go on with our lives, work a lot, do well in Uni, find our own place. And sometimes I just wonder how can we be expected to do that when the most fundamental bond a human being can have has been perverted and shattered. I feel deeply that this is a massive event to happen, it is world redefining, a complete reconstitution of who we are as people, and everybody just wants you to move on and act the same as you did before it happened.

I think that's because people that don't have to deal with it don't want to look at it. That perversion of something so integral frightens them, and so they ask that we act like it doesn't exist so they don't have to confront it. It's like staring at a worst case scenario, except its not just an idea, but a living breathing human being that they have to talk to and have the consequences of that estrangement demonstrated to them over and over again.

Maybe that's too pessimistic, but that's what I feel at the moment. Obviously no one can fill the role of a parent in your life, even your parents (especially if you're on this subreddit). But, its nice to think about sometimes, and then its just sad. Every so often I will feel like I'm doing well swimming and navigating through these things, and then I take a look around at other people and realise I've just been treading water.

My parents were verbally,physically and emotionally abusive. Culminating into a physical assault that fractured our relationship (that they now deny took place). They pulled me off the career path I’d been on for years and proceeded to berate me into suicidality when I was at my lowest. Apologized for all of it then denied it ever happened. So throw in reality distortion too lmao.

Despite that. The final nail in the coffin was voting MAGA a third time.

It was literally one of the biggest confirmations that my parents weren’t people worth knowing or engaging with.

Now that I’m job hunting with the now useless degree they made me get, in the largest economic downturn in US history I 1000% made the right call.

I don’t miss them. I’m still angry with them.

So if you need a sign this is it. Get those bigots out your life babes

Hey so I'm 25 female. I used to be estranged from my mother for 6 years 1.5 years ago. There was a lot of growth on her part, taking her meds and leaving a very toxic expartener and now we are back at a good relationship. My mum is not the topic of this but it's just to say I know what estranged entails. I was lucky to have my mum back but at the time I thought that relationship was lost forever.

Now my Father. He is the one financially supporting me since I was 18, first through my studies now since I had to quite because of health issues. I'm now severely handicaped and even if I'm looking for work, I realistically can't work. I applied for financial aid as soon as I could, but in my country they are really really hard to get so they might say no. And if they say yes, the earliest I could get is in December and it could take a lot longer...so for the time being finances are really tight. So, as materialistic as it sounds, the money my Father sends me is the difference between me and my partner eating or not eating at all. For him, who has a very comfortable lifestyle, it's the difference between buying more stuff for his hobbies or buying less stuff for his hobbies. I'm greatfull for the money, but the price of it is getting unbearable.

I've desperately been trying to untangle myself financially from him for years as I thought it might improve our relationship and my mental health but not with great success so far. He is like many parents here extremely difficult to live with. On the surface level he a nice guy that is just too occupied to call his first child who is severely handicaped (poor of him) more than every 6 months before a barber's appointment and can't take the time to read the updated messages she sent. The reality is that every interaction is belittling, being forced to listen to long monologues without interrupting because it sends him over the edge, listening to his stories about changing phones or buying wood for most of the call when I have several important things to tell him, being unsure if he'll send my stipend every month since he is supper volatile and will not inform me. I can't push back or draw lines in the sand because I might get violented on the phone and he might take away any sense of stability I have. He never beat me but I think I came close many times, my best friend had to interpose himself once when my dad was originally there to help me move.

Contacting and interacting with him feels like trying to disarm a bomb blind folded in the trunk of a car going 130km/h on a bumpy road. My brother already cut all ties with him, his wife is planning to divorce him and 2 of my 3 half siblings have already started to avoid engaging with him.

I feel anxious about every call. After, my partner has to comfort me for days because I cry all the tears in my body and I'm left just a shell of myself. But I can't help but think "Enduring this is my way to contribute to household finances. Just one more month. I can't work so I can at least do that." I'm also deeply and irrationally afraid of loosing our appartement. And finally, I hate saying this about someone so abusive, but it's my dad, and after what happened with my mum I'm really afraid of loosing a parent (even if a shitty one) as well as contact with my half siblings I love deeply and have no asked for anything.

But, even with everything holding me back, last call was too much. He weaponised my diagnosies against me, told me that he pays me so I have to listen uninterrupteddly to him (and basically let him belittle me) , threatened one too many times to take everything away from me and making me feel like I'm a slothful, ungrateful brat. It took me over a day to stop thinking I was an awful person even with my partner doing everything to help me. I still am sometimes unsure even if I know factually I did nothing wrong except be a little less enthusiastic than normal because I was in a great deal of pain and was sleep deprived (which I told my father and apologised about several times during my call).

My partner is going to contact his family to try to help find some financial solution. I'm going to contact my mum to see if she can help us even if I'm unsure if it's a good idea given our history and the fact I don't want to break the little equilibrium we've found. But even if these people are very generous, they don't have my dad's income and I feel guilty asking them and maybe putting them in financial difficulties. And also if we don't get help, we just can't afford to stop dealing with my father but I just don't know anymore how I can do that.

In parallel I'm trying my best to keep it together but a lot of trauma seeped back up and I'm severely disassociating. I know this will come back to bight me soone. I know I can survive this but I'm struggling a lot mentally.

Please talk to me, give me your opinions, advice, stories, questions, anything...I just really need to know I'm not in some sick Trueman show. That I'm not alone.

I (27,f)have officially gone no contact with my (53,m)father. I have dealt with emotional abuse for years. I’m getting married soon, and he recently just got his 29 year old wife (who he met while she was young at his business he owned) pregnant. I have been an only child my whole life up until now. He hates me and my mother but will not stop asking about her. He also just recently screamed at my aunt in front of his grieving mother calling the women in our family bitches (this was after his father died, my grandpa). At my grandfathers funeral he ignored me the whole time, which was super hard for me.

My first memory of him is throwing my mother into a closet while I was in the bathtub (she was 19 and he was 28 when she got pregnant with me).

And my last memory will be him throwing a hissy fit over text and telling me to “get over” the hurt he’s caused.

I feel a weight has been lifted off my shoulders finally. Nothing I ever did could be right for him so, now I will do nothing! Woo hoo

Hi there. I'm just needing to vent and get advice from people who actually understand my situation and the feelings that come with it.

I have not seen or spoken to my father since I was 10 years old (we found out he had another name and family). He never looked back and only contacted me about 3 or 4 times to send a late birthday card with a few dollars in it. He never asked for visitation, never paid his child support, nothing. found out that he passed away about ten years later through a random Google search and seeing an obituary. I put it to bed and was finally able to move on.

A few years later, his adult daughter reached out to me and wanted to meet. She gave me some history, such as his being on hospice and explaining emeritus to them and aploogizibg for being a bad father. Honestly, what a knife to the heart. Not even on his deathbed could he do the right thing. Anyway, I apologized and explained that it was not in my best interest to do so and that I wanted to leave everything about him in my past. She vacant hurt and offended, which I understood, and tried several more times until I finally had to block her on social media. She created a fake profile and tried again so i stopped opening the messages and blocked again.

Fast forward to today and her sister, who has been a part of this conversation since day one and knows my stance just sent me a friend request. I will ignore it but the anxiety that gets stirred up everyone they reach out, and I have explained, starts all over again.

Any advice? I feel bad that they want something but it is not something I can give them. They are his family, not mine and he chose them, which I have dealt with, but this brings up all of those feelings of not being enough and abandonment all over again. I just wish they would respect and understand how many bad emotions this stirs up for me.

I know there’s a lot of people here who struggle with going no contact, but I’m wondering does anyone here simultaneously struggle with immense regret and self hatred for not cutting them off sooner?

I’m talking like continuing to be in contact literally ruined the trajectory of your own life. Maybe your parent took out a loan in your name & ruined your credit or spread rumors at your place of employment to destroy your reputation or in my personal example psychiatrically abused me for years with drugs & made up diagnoses. But they did something that permanently destroyed your projected life path. How do you guys deal with the guilt and self flagellation of thinking everything is your fault because you didn’t cut them off sooner?

If I had my life wouldn’t be destroyed right now, all of my opportunities & career wouldn’t have been taken away from me, none of that bad stuff and abuse I endured would have happened if I had cut contact sooner. Everything bad in my life happened with her as the origin. This parent blew up their own life and then I allowed them to blow up mine. And I just hate myself for it that I wasn’t stronger to just cut contact before. Even now, it feels like she’s taken everything (my career, my health, my relationships, my safety, my privacy) and there’s nothing left, so it’s like I cut contact too late when it doesn’t matter anymore. She’s already moving on to my brother now to ruin his life. Can anyone relate???

This is why I’m so jealous of people with absent parents because none of this would have happened if she was never around. I was doing great on my own and was a model child before she got involved.

I’m literally about to prepare to leave my biological creeps for good by 2027-28. I’m so done with their mental destruction and I am watching their downfall in minutes. Fuck that predator.