u/RainAndThunderIsCool

Toplane wavemanagement questions after first few waves

Toplane wavemanagement questions after first few waves

Hi,

I watched Coach Chippys S16 wave control guide and have some questions left, maybe I missed someting from the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmGT1aQj1ek

I would highly appreciate feedback from GM+ players.

For long trade champs

^((Q = Question))

Q1: You want a 2 wave crash and contest third wave to keep up with level 3 but not push it and keep it even to bounce It back so you can have a wave state near your tower to run enemy down, correct?

Q2: After first bounce back in your first opportunity to run enemy down, what is the goal if it succeed or failed? If it fails you slow push into them and than just back and wait for next bounce back for next try to run them down? Is this then basically the idea for the rest of the laningphase for wavemanagement?

For Short trade champs

Q3: you want a slow push and a 3 wave crash, and kinda prevent the 4th wave from bouncing back? I got kinda confused here because you are really near the enemy tower on 4th wave, or do you let it bounce back and play safe until next slow push build up? Depending on the matchup, my guess is you use the minion advantage to fight of vs long trade champs but I would still be scared to slow push vs a darius.

Q4: What is the idea for the rest of the laningphase? Slow push -> crash -> play safe until wave crash back into your tower or even freeze and than hold freez or slow push back? On slow push back like I mentioned in Q3 I would be scared to pushing towards darius.

Weakside, counterpick or bad match

Q5: What is your job when you are against a really bad matchup, lets say you are some weakside tank. I guess you dont have the luxury to control waves, your job is just to survive and soak exp right? I dont think a Ornn can hold a 3 wave crash (if for some reason darius give prio on level 1). Or do I win regardless with minion advantage?

I am thankful for any high elo top laners who reply to this.

u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 9 hours ago

What is Camilles gameplan? What defines Camille?

Hi,

where does Camille Top stand right now? In past days, long ago, when I didnt played her, I always saw her as a 1v1 duelist with great scaling. But those days are long gone I think.

When a Camille OTP shows a video how he carries game, but at the same time nearly died to a ADC or APC while beeing ahead, than I feel like Jax, Fiora would be better. Also her true damage sounds great on paper, but every assasin can do that "burst" to squishies, and her damage towards HP stacking enemies is laughable.

When I play Ornn I always stack HP and she stops to do damage.

Is she a lv1 snowball champ? Scaling champ? Can she weakside and scale back? Or is she more of a support now?

When I watch top tier Camille OTPs, they win 1v1s really close, like If they made one little mistake its over. Often they also carry games through catching rather than "fair" 1v1s 2v2s and so on. Ofc not every example is the same, ofc camille can go 14/0 in lane vs really bad players.

I am deciding between Fiora, Camille, Jax and so on. And I dont fully understood Camilles job.

I watched a lot of matchups and gameplays, and what I keep seeing ist, more like a mid game catch the helpless squishy or 1v1 when super ahead.

More like an assasin tbh.

Fore sure I could be 100% wrong and misunderstood something. Why would you take Camille over other champs (besides liking to play her).

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How do I stop doing same mistakes again that I KNOW are bad?

Hi,

I dont consider myself a good player, but I watch guides and understand sometimes what a bad play is and I still do the play for some reason. This case is happening for years.

This is more of a psychological question. I think there are more players like me who knows what they are doing wrong but still keep doing it.

For example, I am a Yi jungle, I know ganking an fed Lee sind top who can escape easily and me with only 30% of my HP left and no ult is a really bad idea, but for some idiotic reasons I still do it. Even before I think to my self
"he can escape, CC me with ult or just burst me down, its a waste of time, go for bot where you can get easy kill or farm"
but I dont know what It is which keeps me doing the same mistake over adn over again.

Or the "helper" syndrom where I keep helping bad plays where I know that are horrible plays. A guy overextending with 20% hp while 3 enemies are missing, I should not try to assist him in early game... yet I feel like my inner idiotic "good guy" tries to safe his life. I hate It. How can I overcome this bad behavior of mine?

At first I was like, ok thats just old habbit, but the habbit just doesnt go away.

The only solution I see here right now is to make a full stop to just think for a second. This will be bad for the second where I just stand still and dont do anything but atleast I might stop myself committing into horrible plays.

What I also started doing is that while doing some autopilot stuff like pathing, I already think what I should do next.

"Dont gank X lane, its over, he will 1v2 or you will just waste your time" - and yet I still do it. I could slap myself for that.

Anyone who overcame this?

Elo: Emerald right now

EDIT: Typos

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People who abuse Varus top, why?

Like do you not care for any honor, for any skill credit or anything? Would you actually take away candy from a baby to win? Beause thats litterly what you are doing now, abusing a broken system to win regardless of the price.

What made you do that? Did you loose 10 games in a row and now dont care if you cheat?

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 2 days ago

Do people see when I fullmute?

Hi,

since I started learning jungle I also learned that the huge amount of toxicity is not worth It so I insta fullmute everything.

I enjoy playing like this a lot. I also review my games a lot to improve.

Interestingly I see huge amount of ping spams on my champ, questions mark, vision mark, whole game.

Im kinda confusd, isnt there a message in chat that shows them that I muted all pings and chat? I mean, I dont see those ingame anyway, just curious why people still ping and go mad.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 3 days ago

Am I terrible bad at gwen or is a good darius supposed to be auto loose?

im em4, playing some normals to understand more champs.

With Camille in like 3 games I went 13/0 against a darius. But as Gwen I feel like I get completly deleted whole game.

He played ghost and I couldnt land anything most of the time he slowed me and danced around to dodge my Q and Ult.

But once I even hit most of the stuff and he still deleted me.

Im confused what my job is as Gwen.

The only "success" i had is in teamfight where my ult just blast trough whole enemy team dealing good damage.

My question ist, is Gwen more of a scaling lategame APC champ rather than a duelist/fighter? And ofc I am bad with her, but the stat differences in some 1v1s is crazy. So basically what is my job in laningphase and in the game?

I also feel like im only good against a helpless meatshield target. But everyone is good against suhc a target.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 3 days ago

Jungle, How do I improve after minute 20 as Nocturne?

Hi,

its always the same scenario:

  1. I go something like 3/0/5 or 5/0/2 in early
  2. getting every drake unless its 100% loss botside, 80%+ of the time I got all first 2 drakes.
  3. I kill splitpushing sidelaners , especially squishies.
  4. after a kill I dont afk or go back, I help using this advantage to do plates, drakes, grubs, herald...

Problem:

After minute 20-ish It starts to go down hill EXTREME.

  1. I start to see that I can barely kill a ADC, I only have like 20% hp left after killing a MF.
  2. It seems like I cant 1v1 anymore even with a perfectly hitted W shield.
  3. People start to group hard, I cant force my team to do split , so we can enforce a 1v2 with my ult.
  4. often It feels like we are outdrafted because I cant first engage (if I try I instant die in multiple people). Yes... I also press just ult for darkness to "help" my team, which does nothing in teamfights , we still loose. I feel just so powerless.
  5. Builds: I tried pretty much everything what a current guide will tell me to build, It feels like My power spike is at hex after that it goes hard downhill, my 1v1 power shrinks to extreme.
  6. On objective I also tried to play slow and await for isolation, but after early game It seem to be that whole enemy team starts to play around me.
  7. Sometimes I start to push mid so we hav epressure and force someone into mid, It just doesnt work, they send 2 people or ignore this and do other objective, which forced my team to fight a 4v5 (they wont listen to back off calls, so I cant rely on that).
  8. The facetanking ADC, AP Nida just destroys my mental, I use my W to block but aftet two items I feel so useless.

How can I improve my gameplay around this? need help. I tried for a weak to improve this. Guide videos seem to pull out the perfect win condition scenario, but dont seem to showcase what I should do when whole enemy team play arounds me or I start to become useless for some reason.

Emerald-plat elo.

EDIT: I am sitting at around 60% winrate (20ish RANKED games) on noc, which sounds ok but this is declining and sometimes I win becuase my team is just better instead of me doing something doing good, So realistic I have like only 35% winrate I would say.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 4 days ago

Is Xin mid gonna be nerfed? it feels unplayable as low elo control mage

Just playing some normals. Im only emerald peek and trying to have some fun. Played mid vs a xin and this was not fun.

I had no chance at all and couldnt walk past tower he had full control. I guess im expected to dodge his W? But this seem to be kinda hard without mobility, its more like prediction rather than actual dodging.

If you get hit , he can basiaclly jump whole lane.

Is this going to be nerfed or will this stay? Feel like only solution is to perma ban him when I want to play some mid games.

I am for sure a bad player, but I would rather play against a yasuo/yone than a Xin. And I also see in mid-main subbredit that people are complaingin about xin mid.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 5 days ago

Would Challenger players be flamed in low elo If they played jungle?

Hi,

I am bad player, only emerald2 peak. When I play jungle in normals, I noticed that I get flamed even by litteral iron/bronze/silver players, even If we got all drakes, and I play on strong side lane. While sitting on a 10/0 score.

I wonder If actual good players like Challenger would be flamed in low elo. I like to watch streams and see sometimes they have unlucky early so they have a slower ramp up time, but they didnt seem to get flamed or I missed such things yet.

Im wondering If there is some hidden tactic beside fullmute (which I insta use on first flame) to prevent players goign mental on you for not ganking their lane, even if you are carrying the other side and objectives hard.

Any higher elo smurfs can provide intel?

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 7 days ago

How to keep mental up when you climb slow and steady?

Hi,

I started playing again from a long break, now I am playing more chill and relaxed, always atleast even+ mostly winning lane and having impact in teamfights.

I am climbing, but the process is kinda feels like waste of time sometimes. In Plat to Emerald it got extreme, either we easy win hard the game or I have a 0/14 botlane (not joking, litterly tilted player) but ofc this does also happen on enemy team, one game I had a tilted enemy laner which I put 0/10 in lane.

The problem is, when I climbed from gold to plat it was kinda more balanced, more chaotic but also more balanced in some way because both where doing mistakes nonstop. But here its just about who got the tiled guy which is gonna run it down.

I like league, but I want balanced matches. Winning with 10/0 top or loosing with a 0/14 botlane is jsut not fun.

I think I will end up somewhere in emerld 2 again and quit like last time. Last season I was climbing too, slow and steady, but the heavy imbalance in matches just was not fun to play.

I dont really care for elo, I would rather stay in gold or somewhere, where you can have interactive matches, planing for objectives, planing teamfights. But its more like, oh this time we got the fed botlane so we auto win all drakes and the game, while the enemy ADC keeps running it down and blaming his team in all chat. I just mute this, but still, its like playing football where your enemy wont play, its not fun to play football that way..

How do I keep my mental up with this? I remember last season this was the same in plat1-emerald2. Maybe It gets better in emerald1 or diamond4? So I have a goal to reach for better machmaking?

I just want to have an actual fun, strategic league game, not this tiltfest the people are playing here.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 8 days ago

Is nocturne a snowball reliant champ? How to succeed without lead?

Hi,

I am bad jungle player and still learning.

I had couple of good games with im where I went 10/0, but also terrible games where with 3/4.

The biggest Issue I have is, I feel like when I cant snowball I will loose 100% because I feel completly useless in teamfights. Problem is when Im the only frontline, If I engage first on iso target, I am getting hard cc by whole team. If i dont engage, my team will get run down.

I try to play like jungle guides tell me, use kills for advantages like objectives or invade. However I have huge issues fighting that 13 kills Yone in teamfights who oblitareds my team while I am useless.

What is my job with only 3 kills as Nocturne? I feel like a bad fighter. The issue always starts when laningphase is over and people hard group and save CCs for me. Before laningphase I dont have much problems, I can review my games with guides fine. But after laningphase I mostly pray for win.

And when only a super fed yone is sidelaning, I thing It is suicid to ult him.

I try to play around my winning lane and we mostly get the first 2-3 drakes and two towers, but after that, If I dont have giga lead, I am useless. Enemy team groups up and I cant kill a single target nor does my ult provide enough assistant for teamfights, the enemy actually starts to cuddle together and await me.

Is this a teamcomp thing? With Amumu, It feels way more consistant to win.

So is it correct that Nocturne needs to end games before laninphase is over or he is in mercy of the enemy team ?

My toplane elo is emerald3+ but my jungle elo is only around plat2/3. Also the difference between Plat4 and plat3 is crazy, on plat4 it was giga easy mode, while on plat2 I feel like only smurfs are playing (im exaggerate here).

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 9 days ago

Am I doing something wrong or is stealth useless mechanic in this game for most content?

New to GTA5 Online, had The Cluckin’ Bell Farm Raid Missions done. On some on them I tried stealth and It felt completly useless. Silencer on a isolated target, but still for some reason every single npcs knows EXACTLY where I am.

If this game isnt supposed to be played with stealth, np, BUT WHY give me the option to do this?

Or do I need high level of stealth to make It usefull?

Am I spoiled from the ghost reacon series?

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 14 days ago

I've read through some reddit posts, and It seem like, people defend this style of play but also cry about it at the same time.

You pick champ X on top and get hard countered by enemy, unless enemy makes mistake you are not allowed to touch the wave. In some match up, he will beat you in lane and outscale you at same time.

But yet still, people prefer this for some reason.

Some cry posts talked about how changes are needed for a more healthy top lane environment where your life isnt turned into hell if you are counterpicked or did 1 mistake.

Perma freeze for example, If your champ simply cant compete enemy, and he desides to perma freeze and also deny exp, you are done for it. If someone would cry for jungler, people would still blame you. So calling for help from jungler is not an option. Even worse if the freeze starts at first bounc back.

But why do people prefer this type of gameplay? It seems like they like to cry or dominate, but not a more balance typed of play like most (most, not all) mid matchups. Where atleast you can roam, farm more safe, freeze is more difficult/impossible.

The only thing which is keeping top laners insanity is (imo) mistakes/bad plays. So on counterpick you basically hop for mistakes or hope for jungle ganks. This doesnt seem like a fun gameplay.

So why do you still prefer this type of gameplay? Wouldnt a more balanced lane like mid be better, by speeding up minions on top, increasing minion damage, more healthy options if you are counterpicked (just some examples/ideas, I think the issue is not the fix, but the motiviation to do so).

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 18 days ago

Hi,

I can constantly dominate with Vi, Xin, Viego but damn ADCs seem to do litterly only 1% damage per hit. I tried now like 10+ games as adc with a premade support, and my damage was always a joke. Tried different builds, armor pen, botrk , crit, AS, all seem do extremly bad damage. I feel liek only 1 out of 10 games if you are lucky to not get oneshot by enemy Xin.

Also feel like for no visible reason some champions are redicously strong or weak regardless of runes.

Are ADCs extremly nerfed? I never had issues beating ADCs as typical arena champ.

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u/RainAndThunderIsCool — 22 days ago