Who is the most Stoic Player in survivor history?

To be clear, not who controlled the game the most. Tony controls games and is the antithesis of Stoic: frantic, paranoid, reactive to every shift. Entirely different trait.

I mean when push comes to shove, who stayed the most composed, deliberate, and unbothered by chaos outside his control?

A name that comes to mind is Yul Kwon. He seems like he would absorb a blindside the same way he absorbed a calm afternoon: evenly, without flinching, already thinking two steps ahead instead of reacting.

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u/JEX2124 — 3 days ago

Who is the meanest person to ever play Survivor?

To be clear, not social maneuvering or the social part of the game or the “biggest villain.”

I mean when push comes to shove, who is the cruelest, ugliest, meanest soul to ever play the game?

A name that comes to mind is Colton Cumbie. He seems like he would show contempt to literally anyone.

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u/JEX2124 — 4 days ago

Who is the nicest person to ever play survivor?

To be clear, not social maneuvering or the social part of the game or the “most fun to have around on the island.”

I mean when push comes to shove, who is the kindest, purest, nice soul to ever play the game?

A name that comes to mind is T-Bird Cooper. She seems like she would show care and kindness to literally everyone.

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u/JEX2124 — 5 days ago

How would Keith Nale have been perceived had he won SJDS and/or Second Chance?

Honest question: I don’t really care about rankings, but I do think Keith is one of the strangest characters in Survivor history.

Heart of gold. Lovable as a teddy bear. Strategically inept. Basically never made a move, and heck, he could barely even vote correctly half the time. 😂

He was great at challenges, got targeted a ton despite having all those immunities, and yet somehow finished Top 6 twice.

And honestly, you can make a pretty compelling argument that Keith is a Top 4–6 finisher in a surprisingly large percentage of seasons he plays.
So what do you make of a winner Keith? How does his legacy change if he actually wins SJDS and/or Cambodia?

Also, when Cambodia aired, was the audience absolutely crushed when Keith came up short? Did he have a huge real-time following that genuinely wanted him to win, despite the strategic ineptitude and his seeming disinterest in anything remotely related to strategy—or really anything non-physical/non-social?

Because Keith is such a fascinating case where the results almost seem completely at odds with the way he actually played.

Obligatory RIP.

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u/JEX2124 — 8 days ago

Give me your best argument for why Ozzy deserved to win CI

Even if you don’t necessarily believe Ozzy deserved the win. Regardless of Yul, I do believe Ozzy played a strong game in Cook Islands. He was very close. But I have rarely heard arguments for why he deserved the win. Pretend you’re hired to be the “Ozzy deserved to win CI” apologist. What’s your argument? I am eager to hear what people come up with.

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u/JEX2124 — 8 days ago

50 seasons of challenge data: which season actually had the best challenge beasts?

I went through all 50 seasons and pulled every contestant's Challenge Wins (ChW) score, then asked a question I've never seen answered cleanly: which season had the best pair of challenge competitors, and which had the best three? And the reverse, which season's best two and three were the weakest.

Quick note on the stat, because it matters. ChW comes from the Survivometer scoring at True Dork Times. It isn't a raw count of necklaces. It splits credit for tribe challenges among the tribe and weights individual wins, so a number like 5.87 means "roughly six challenges' worth of winning." I didn't build it, I just aggregated it. All credit to that site for maintaining fifty seasons of this.

The four answers

Best duo: Panama (S12), 12.61. Terry Deitz 9.34 + Aras 3.27.

Best trio: Worlds Apart (S30), 15.29. Mike Holloway 7.54 + Joe Anglim 3.95 + Carolyn 3.80.

Worst duo: Island of the Idols (S39), 6.17. Noura 3.52 + Aaron 2.65.

Worst trio: Island of the Idols (S39), 8.71. Add Dean at 2.42.

Island of the Idols finishes dead last on both measures.

Top 10 duos

# Season Top 2 Who
1 Panama 12.61 Terry 9.34, Aras 3.27
2 Palau 12.16 Tom 6.66, Ian 5.50
3 Worlds Apart 11.49 Holloway 7.54, Joe 3.95
4 S47 11.09 Kyle Ostwald 5.68, Rachel 5.41
5 Australia 10.68 Colby 8.09, Keith 2.59
6 Game Changers 10.40 Brad Culpepper 6.56, Andrea 3.84
7 All-Stars 10.31 Boston Rob 7.07, Big Tom 3.24
8 Cook Islands 10.24 Ozzy 7.82, Yul 2.42
9 S49 9.89 Savannah 6.10, Sophie Segreti 3.79
10 Fiji 9.74 Boo 5.30, Yau-Man 4.44

Top 10 trios

# Season Top 3 Who
1 Worlds Apart 15.29 Holloway, Joe, Carolyn
2 Palau 15.16 Tom, Ian, Gregg
3 Panama 14.87 Terry, Aras, Danielle
4 S47 13.73 Kyle O., Rachel, Genevieve
5 Cambodia 13.34 Joe, Spencer, Wentworth
6 S49 13.32 Savannah, Sophie S., Steven
7 All-Stars 13.18 Rob, Big Tom, Amber
8 Fiji 13.09 Boo, Yau-Man, Stacy
9 Edge of Extinction 12.79 Devens, Gavin, Aurora
10 Australia 12.77 Colby, Keith, Jerri

The bottom

Duos Trios
Island of the Idols 6.17 Island of the Idols 8.71
S50 6.63 S50 9.32
Blood vs Water 6.70 Heroes vs Villains 9.51
Heroes vs Villains 6.71 Samoa 9.55
Samoa 6.92 Blood vs Water 9.61

Yes, that's Heroes vs Villains. The most stacked cast the show had ever assembled, in the bottom four both ways. Hold that thought, there's a reason and it isn't "they were bad."

Terry Deitz is on another planet

The individual leaderboard, all 50 seasons:

# Player Season ChW
1 Terry Deitz Panama 9.34
2 Colby Donaldson Australia 8.09
3 Ozzy Lusth Cook Islands 7.82
4 Mike Holloway Worlds Apart 7.54
5 Boston Rob All-Stars 7.07
6 Tom Westman Palau 6.66
7 Bob Crowley Gabon 6.64
8 Brad Culpepper Game Changers 6.56
9 Chrissy Hofbeck HHH 6.43
10 Brian Heidik Thailand 6.18

Terry beats second place by 1.25, which is a bigger gap than the one between second and sixth. He was 47. He did it while his tribe got destroyed and he had to win basically everything himself, which is exactly why the number is so big, and it's the whole reason Panama takes the duo crown despite Aras being a merely-good 3.27.

Two more things about that list. Bob Crowley was 57 and Chrissy Hofbeck was 46, so three of the ten best challenge seasons ever belong to players over 45. And the top three all lost.

Different seasons are good in different shapes

The duo and trio lists disagree, and the disagreement is the interesting part.

Australia is one man. Colby 8.09, then Keith at 2.59 as the best available partner. Fifth in duos, tenth in trios. Take Colby out and the season is nothing.

Amazon is two and a cliff. Jenna 4.72 and Matthew 4.64 is the tightest elite pair in the first thirty seasons, a gap of 0.08. Third place is Dave Johnson at 1.88. Amazon sits 16th in duos and falls to 29th in trios, the biggest drop on the board.

Palau and S47 are the real duos. Panama wins on Terry alone, gap of 6.07 between first and second. Palau's gap is 1.16 and S47's is 0.27. If your definition of "best duo" is two actual beasts rather than one guy dragging a body, Palau and S47 are your answer and it isn't close.

Cagayan and Vanuatu are depth seasons. Cagayan ranks 35th in duos and 25th in trios because Spencer 4.41, Tasha 3.54, and Woo 3.53 are nearly identical. Vanuatu goes 22nd to 12th on the strength of Chris, Eliza, and Ami.

The part I got wrong at first

I assumed the bottom of the list meant "weak challenge season." It doesn't. Look at who's down there: Heroes vs Villains, Blood vs Water, Winners at War, S50. Those are four of the most credentialed casts ever assembled.

ChW measures how concentrated the wins were, not how good the players were. When twenty proven competitors split a fixed pool of challenges, nobody accumulates a big number. When one tribe steamrolls everything and one guy wins every individual, you get Palau.

The receipts:

  • Joe Hunter posts 5.31 in S48 and 3.22 in S50. Same guy, one season apart.
  • Jonathan Young posts 3.48 in S42 and 2.69 in S50.
  • Boston Rob: 7.07 in All-Stars, 0.25 in Winners at War.
  • Colby: 8.09 in Australia, then 0.81, 1.56, and 0.57 in his three returns.

S50 had twenty-four players and produced a season-high of 3.41, the second-lowest in the entire run. That's twenty-four people cutting the same pie.

So the honest version of the "worst" answer is: Island of the Idols is genuinely the weakest, and Samoa is genuinely weak (18 new players, standard format, season-high of 3.98, and Natalie White won the whole thing with a 0.37). Heroes vs Villains, Blood vs Water, Winners at War and S50 are dilution, not weakness. Cambodia and Game Changers are the counterexamples that keep it from being a law: both are all-returnee seasons that finished top six in their decade.

Every decade has been less dominant than the last

Average top-2 by decade:

Seasons Avg top-2
1-10 9.45
11-20 8.78
21-30 8.76
31-40 8.48
41-50 8.23

Monotonic. Never once goes up. Trios show the same slope with one small bump.

Six of the ten best individual seasons ever come from the first twenty seasons. Only two players after S40 clear 5.50: Kyle Ostwald and Savannah Louie. Six seasons in the new era have a season-high under 4.10.

I don't think this is "players got worse." Shorter seasons, bigger merges, three-tribe splits, journeys and Shot in the Dark pulling people out of challenges, more challenges won as a group. The wins get spread thinner every era. But it does mean comparing a modern total to Palau or Australia straight up is comparing two different things.

S47 is the exception and it's a big one. 11.09 and 13.73, fourth all-time on both. Kyle Ostwald and Rachel LaMont are the only post-S40 pair that would rank near the top in any era.

Assorted things I found that don't fit anywhere else

Only 15 of 50 winners led their own season in challenges. Brian Heidik, Jenna, Chris Daugherty, Tom, Bob, JT, Fabio, Boston Rob, Kim, Cochran, Holloway, Michele, Nick Wilson, Tony (WaW), Savannah. That's it.

S41 through S48 is an eight-season streak where the challenge leader never won. Savannah broke it in S49. S50 immediately started a new one.

Career ChW leaders across all appearances: Ozzy 17.03 (7.82 / 0.89 / 5.93 / 1.10 / 1.29), Boston Rob 14.51, Colby 11.03. Ozzy's Cook Islands number alone is bigger than most people's entire careers.

Biggest returnee glow-up: Brad Culpepper went 0.25 in Blood vs Water to 6.56 in Game Changers. That +6.31 swing is the largest by anyone, and it's why Game Changers ranks 6th in duos.

Women's leaderboard: Chrissy Hofbeck 6.43, Savannah Louie 6.10, Kim Spradlin 6.08, Kelly Wiglesworth 5.87, Rachel LaMont 5.41. The top of that list is a 46-year-old actuary, which I did not have on my bingo card.

Closest thing to a perfect duo: S47's Kyle Ostwald 5.68 and Rachel LaMont 5.41. Highest combined total with the smallest gap of any pair in the top ten. And the guy who won more finished 11th while the other one won the game.

Caveats, because they're real

ChW is a raw cumulative total, so it rewards playing more challenges. Palau's 20-person cast and heavy challenge load inflates it. Twenty-four-player S50 and 20-player returnee seasons deflate it. The right fix is to express each season's top-2 as a share of that season's total ChW, or as a multiple of the season mean, which turns the question into "how dominant were the best relative to their own field." I have the data to do it and I'll post it as a Part 2 if there's interest. My guess is Panama runs away with it, Heroes vs Villains climbs a lot, and Samoa and Island of the Idols stay at the bottom because their leaders weren't dominant in relative terms either.

So argue with me

  • Is Panama's 12.61 a real "best duo" when 74% of it is one man?
  • Does Palau or S47 deserve the title instead on the two-actual-beasts standard?
  • Is the era decline a real change in the players or purely a change in format?
  • Which season do you feel had the best challenge competitors, and does the data back you up or embarrass you?

Happy to pull any individual season's full numbers if you want to check my work.

u/JEX2124 — 10 days ago

We say Cirie would win any Final Tribal she reached and treat that as proof of greatness. We say the challenge beast would win any Final Tribal they reached and treat that as a reason to boot him. That's the same sentence graded two different ways.

Here's the double standard laid bare.

The whole case for Cirie as the best to never win rests on a counterfactual: if she got to the end, she'd win. Parvati said it outright. Six different Winners at War players named her the best never to win. The belief is that her game was so strong that any jury sitting in front of her hands her the money. And I agree with all of it. She's a legend.

But notice what that belief actually is. It's "this player is such a lock to win at the end that everyone around her has to remove her before she gets there." She got taken out at F3 in Micronesia's spirit, targeted early in Heroes vs Villains, and in Game Changers she was eliminated in sixth with zero votes cast against her, purely because she was sole castaway left without protection. Her greatness is measured by how hard everyone worked to keep her away from a Final Tribal she never actually reached.

Now say the exact same sentence about a challenge beast. "This player is such a lock that everyone has to get him out before the end." When it's Cirie, that sentence is a coronation. When it's Mike Holloway or a Joe Anglim/Kyle Ostwald type, that same sentence becomes the knock: he's one-dimensional, he's a threat they should have minimized, if he has to win his way there his game failed.

It's the identical structure. Both players are so dangerous that the field is forced to target them. Both survive, or fail to survive, based on whether they can withstand being the biggest bullseye in the game. We just decided that being an undeniable end-game threat is a compliment when the threat is social and a defect when the threat is physical.

And here's the part that should actually flip the hierarchy. Cirie's game, for all its brilliance, could not will her to the end. When she was the target with no immunity and no advantage, she went home. That's the ceiling of a pure social-strategic threat: you are at the mercy of everyone else's willingness to keep you. The challenge beast has the one tool that removes that mercy from the equation. When he's the target, he can physically refuse to leave. That's not a lesser version of Cirie's problem. It's a solution to it.

So the question I keep landing on: if "he'd win if he got to the end" is a reason to respect a player, why is "and he can force his way to the end" treated as the thing that cheapens him, when it's the exact capability Cirie's game lacked and the exact reason she has four incredible runs and zero titles?

The honest counter is that Cirie's threat and the challenge beast's threat aren't actually the same currency. Cirie earns her end-game lock by building the relationships that would deliver the jury votes, which means the same skill that makes her a target also builds her the win. The challenge beast's immunity buys survival but doesn't build a single jury vote, so being an unkillable threat and being a deserving winner can come apart for him in a way they don't for her. And the fragility point is real: her game fails one specific way (she gets read as too dangerous), while his fails a broader way (one lost challenge and it's over). Those are legitimate distinctions and I don't want to pretend they aren't.

But even granting all of that, it doesn't explain the reflex. We don't say "the challenge beast's threat is a different currency, so let's evaluate it carefully." We say "carried by challenges" and move on. We do the careful, generous, counterfactual math for Cirie and we do the dismissive shorthand for him. The double standard isn't in the conclusion. It's in who gets the benefit of the analysis and who gets the label.

So change my mind: is there a coherent reason "too good to let reach the end" is a crown for one archetype and an asterisk for the other? Or have we just decided physical dominance is the one form of being a threat that doesn't count?

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u/JEX2124 — 20 days ago

What's the money move that made the biggest difference for the least effort once you finally figured it out?

Mine was setting up an automatic transfer of a small amount to a separate savings account the same day my paycheck hits, before it ever lands in my checking where I'd spend it. Not a big amount, small enough that I genuinely didn't feel it leave. For years I'd tried to save whatever was "left over" at the end of the month and there was never anything left over, because money in my checking account is money I will spend, full stop. Moving it out automatically the day it arrived meant I was saving without having to decide to save every time, which was the part I always failed at. Took me way too long to realize the problem was never discipline, it was that I was relying on discipline at all. What was yours, how long did it take you to land on it, and what did it actually change?

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u/JEX2124 — 21 days ago

Why do some places have a "feeling" the moment you walk in, before you've noticed anything specific about them?

You walk into a room, a building, sometimes a whole town, and something in you reacts before your conscious brain has registered a single detail. Sometimes good, sometimes deeply off. What's actually happening in the brain in that gap between arriving and consciously noticing anything? Is it real information the body is picking up, or is it something we're projecting?

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u/JEX2124 — 21 days ago
▲ 344 r/TrueFilm

What's a movie that rewarded a second watch so much it basically became a different film?

The one that did it for me was Phantom Thread. First watch I honestly found it cold and a little airless. Beautiful, obviously, but I spent it waiting for it to become something and then it ended and I sat there thinking "okay, sure." Then I rewatched it maybe a year later already knowing where it lands, and it was almost a different movie. Every scene I'd read as him being a controlling monster and her being difficult suddenly read as two people who'd found the exact strange arrangement they both needed. Nothing is hidden the way a twist is hidden. Knowing the ending just changes the texture of everything before it, and the second time through it's not cold at all, it's a love story I'd completely misread.

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u/JEX2124 — 21 days ago

What's something you stopped buying entirely and genuinely never missed?

I am trying to reduce my consumption and like anything in life, starting with the easy wins can get the momentum rolling. So, what was it for you? The specific thing you used to buy on autopilot, then stopped, and then realized you never actually think about it anymore. Any advice would be GREAT. Thanks in advance.

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u/JEX2124 — 21 days ago

A show being 'slow' has become a criticism people make to signal they weren't willing to meet it halfway, not a real flaw in the show.

Somewhere along the way "slow" turned from a neutral description into a verdict. But a lot of the shows people call slow are just shows that ask you to hold attention across a full episode instead of paying you off every four minutes. That's a real trade, and sometimes it fails, but "slow" gets used as a blanket dismissal that says more about the viewing habit than the show. What's a show you think got wrongly written off as slow, and what was it actually doing with that time? Not saying every slow show is secretly great. Some are just slow. I mean the specific ones where the pace was the point.

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u/JEX2124 — 22 days ago
▲ 0 r/jobs

What's a job everyone assumes is easy that's secretly one of the hardest to do well?

The job people wave off as simple, that's actually brutally hard to do at a high level, and the difficulty is invisible from outside. I mean the specific one where the gap between how easy it looks and how hard it is is widest. What's the job, and what's the part that's so much harder than anyone realizes?

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u/JEX2124 — 22 days ago

What's the creepiest thing about working while everyone else is asleep that you can never explain to day-shift people?

The specific wrongness of being awake and working at 3am, the way a familiar building feels different, the sounds, the sense you're somewhere you're not supposed to be. The thing that never comes across when you try to describe it to someone who only works days. What's yours, and what's the part that doesn't translate?

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u/JEX2124 — 22 days ago
▲ 1.1k r/antiwork

What's a job that looks respectable from the outside but quietly wrecks the people who do it?

I am not talking about the obviously grueling and physically difficult occupations. I mean the one that looks fine, even enviable, from outside, that actually grinds people down in a way nobody warns you about.

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u/JEX2124 — 22 days ago
▲ 1.3k r/DIY

What's a job you started doing yourself that made you realize how much you'd been overpaying, and you're never going back?

Frugal-adjacent but I want the DIY angle specifically. The thing you finally did yourself, that a pro had been charging you real money for, where the moment you finished you thought "that's it? I'm never paying for this again." Mine was swapping my car's cabin air filter, a 90-second job I'd been paying a shop to do. What was yours, how much were you paying, and how easy did it actually turn out to be?

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u/JEX2124 — 22 days ago
▲ 331 r/zoology

What's an animal that's way stranger or scarier than people realize because it looks harmless?

Ones that look boring, cute, or unremarkable and are secretly doing something horrifying or unbelievable. What's the animal, and what's the thing about it that most people have no idea is true?

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u/JEX2124 — 23 days ago
▲ 108 r/MapPorn

Which place on a map looks completely normal but has a genuinely unsettling reason for the way it's laid out?

I love when the map hides something. A town with a street grid that suddenly stops for a non-advertised reason. A border that bends around something. An empty zone in the middle of a populated area. A place that looks ordinary until you learn why it's shaped that way, and then you can't unsee it. For reference, a place I discovered recently was Centralia, Pennsylvania. On a map it looks like a normal small town, but the street grid leads to empty lots and roads that go nowhere, because a coal fire has been burning underground since 1962 and the town was condemned around it. So interesting. I do not know all that much about maps or geography, but I love that stuff. What's the place, what's on the map, and what's the unsettling reason behind it?

u/JEX2124 — 23 days ago

I've always been a little scared of fermenting my own food

Over the years, I have generally been familiar with fermentation and always had it in the back of my mind to try it out. But every time I think about fermenting something, some part of my brain goes "this is how you give your whole family botulism." I lack confidence in this area, BUT I am determined to overcome it and actually start. The hardest part is starting I realize. People do this constantly and are fine, so I know this is a me thing. What's the first thing you made that showed you it was safe and forgiving, and what's the realization that made all the scary rules stop feeling scary?

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u/JEX2124 — 23 days ago