u/Charming-Scratch-124

Just like how a lot of people can't fathom that talented people can work and train hard or how privileged people can have it rough ,way too many seem to forget that someone can be pure evil and have a tragic backstory cause shockingly enough,having a sad past doesn't justify or excuse your actions and choices,they explain them.

Any character can have a sad backstory from the worst of the worst to a overall awful human but still with some sympathetic and good sides as well and it just feels like people think that just cause a villain is pure evil, that suddenly means that they don't have a sad life or sad past at all and that's incredibly black and white.

Homelander is a good example cause yes,he is pure evil and a objectively horrendous human being but he was simultaneously someone who was raised as a lab rat experiment since he was a child and didn't live as anything else and was dehumanized constantly.

Hell,I would argue giving any evil person any sort of nuance and good traits at all and even giving a awful villain a sad backstory isn't the writers "forcing you" to like them or feel bad for them but is here to explore and show you how they became the way they are and why they're like this.

I'll also see this in Mha as well.

No,Horikoshi is not forcing you to feel bad for the villains but it's pretty obvious their backstories are intended to show you how they became this way and how to prevent it from happening again..same goes for AFO.

Yes his backstory is objectively pretty sad and yes, he also is a bad person who is extremely mentally and emotionally ill and has a creepy obsession with his brother but he simultaneously does genuinely love him.

Just like how you can have a sad backstory and still be a awful human, you can genuinely love someone and still be awful and toxic to them.

Sometimes even the worst people can have it tough and it just feels like a lot of people are way too obsessed and salivate over the idea of just a pure evil big bad with no backstory and nothing and is carried solely by hype moments and Aura.

The term Character Assaination(as per the internet) is a deliberate, malicious effort to damage, ruin, or dismantle a person's reputation, credibility, or honor using false rumors, exaggeration, or unfair criticism. It functions as a figurative assassination that targets a person’s public standing rather than their physical life.

Or in a lot of terms,it means that a character who used to be likable and all that is suddenly made into a Asshole or flawed and unlikable or a asshole and unlike antagonistic character is made into some main cast member who's all friendly and whatnot and there are a lot of examples..but I feel like way too many of you all don't know the difference between exploring other parts of a character that were more or less there and just blatantly ruining their character cause y'all just throw that term around willy-nilly.

It's the same as when people think exploring other traits suddenly means said character has been retconned and stuff like that and I can safely say this..that is just not true at all in a good amount of cases.

Exploring character flaws isn't the same as character Assassination.

Y'all just throw that term around without knowing what it means and I feel like the internet does that a lot with words like "fumbling" and whatnot.

The first example is Charlie from Hazbin Hotel.

I'll see a good amount of people claiming she was "character Assassinated" or the "writers ruined her" in S2 and tbh..y'all didn't watch the show if you think that..she always had these flaws in S1.

Y'all just projected the idea that she was a perfect princess when that's not true..she's human cause she makes mistakes.

She's stubborn,has trouble listening to others, tends to be prideful and wrapped up in her own ideals,etc..

And it unfortunately makes sense that these traits would be amplified due to what Vox did and the grief of Pentious's death,learning he was alive,her dream came true,etc.....

Basically who wouldn't make messy and irrational choices and the story calls her out on it.

But she's like some irredeemable and bad person,she can still grow and change and develop and is in the process of doing so.

This show has 5 seasons.

I'll even see people claim that Walter White was character Assassinated and Homelander was character Assassinated in the end of both their respective shows when no..their flaws and true selves were always there, especially Homelander.

Y'all just fell for the propaganda that they were these unstoppable badasses and Sigma Males and whatnot when they were always these overly flawed and selfish and even pathetic people,you just flat out didn't see it and it feels like you were blinded by the hype moments and Aura.

I'm not saying character Assassination doesn't exist but please actually know what it means before you throw it around.

Like..every popular or big character just has that one moment(it could be a fight or moment)that was the height of their career or them as a character and all that and then they just straight up NEVER reached that same peak at all ever since and they've just been kinda...there.

It happens to the best of our favorite Characters and they're mainly why they're glazed for that one moment and fans of said character are desperately holding into that one moment and hoping that someday they'll reach that peak since then but they never will cause of different reasons..it could be cause of bad writing or characters just being forgotten or just in general they don't know how to surpass it cause they're just stuck.

One of the biggest examples is Bane breaking Batman's back.

Like he genuinely has not been able to surpass that ever since and has just been coaxing off that popularity ever since..I'm 50-80% that's where a Good chunk of his popularity is coming from and that's it and it doesn't help that he just hasn't been written well and has just relegated to big strong guy.

Same goes for Doomsday,he's been coaxing off the liberty and payment of Death of Superman.

That's basically it and he's not even really a character,he's just a big monster.

And one of the biggest examples is...Rock Lee and his fight with Gaara in Naruto.

Like between him and Tien,Kashimo and Usopp..I dunno who is more carried by that one minute.

But at least Tien has OG Dragon Ball and Usopp,at least, has Pre-time skip to ride off and at least Kashimo has....something else but Rock Lee is genuinely so carried by The Gaara fight.

Like he is so carried by it that he somehow gaslighted a entire anime generation into thinking that Naruto was all about Hard Work beating Natural talent and be somehow has a million fans glazing him and claiming he should should be the MC cause of ONE FIGHT..One fight that he lost mind you!

He literally got crippled in the end and Sasuke did more damage to him while Naruto defeated Gaara.

It's actually amazing how carried he is by that one fight.at least for characters like Tien and Usopp,they have more moments and such while Rock Lee has jack outside of a pity fight against Kimimaro that he was almost killed in and had to be saved by Gaara.

It's unfortunate how many instances of a character being peaked in high school it is.

Way too many people seem to think that if a villain/antagonist has any sort of sad backstory or more likable traits or positive traits or grows as a person in anyway, that suddenly means that the creator endorses what they do and that they're a apologist/fetishist.

This especially comes with Abuser characters cause way too many people throw around the words "apologist" and all that like they know what it means and that it means that said creator is a apologist for their actions and choices and their reasoning is cause they dare to give them any sort of nuance and good traits and here's a hard and nasty truth,Abusers are never overly ugly and comedically evil Boogeyman.

They can be friendly, they can have positive traits and hobbies and they can be charismatic and kind and friendly and treat other people legitimately well.

Why do you think so many people have so many complicated thoughts and feelings on their abusers and why the phrase "they're not usually like this" is such a common thing you hear abuse victims say?

Cause they're capable of being kind,nice and even sweet to you and you never know when they're about to get violent and even brutal and cruel to you and showcasing that in media isn't justifying their actions but exploring them as characters and as people and in general and sometimes Abusers can even look handsome/beautiful at times,that doesn't change anything.

First example is Valentino from Hazbin Hotel and I still cannot fathom the amount of people who thought that Vivziepop had a abuse fetish/was a rape apologist/fetishist for simply *checks notes* showing Valentino with more layers and personality.

Yes,he likes Art and yes,he legitimately loves Vox and Velvette and has a goofy side and yes,he's even handsome.

That doesn't change the fact that he's a Monster To Angel Dust and many others and it especially doesn't change the fact that he is gonna get his just deserts.

People are complaining he hasn't suffered or been taken down yet seem to ignore that we're only at S2,his abuse to Angel and Angel's entire character arc are massive parts of the show..why the fuck do you want that to be easily dealt with?

Joel Perez has said to have recorded lines up to S4,so it's pretty clear he's sticking around likely after his defeat.

Viv has admitted to relating to Angel Dust many times and Sam Haft is very explictly a Abusive relationship survivor..same with the fact that a good amount of the crew are survivors from a abusive relationship.

So unless you wanna die on the hill that they're fetishizing their own abuse..I suggest you take a seat.

(Also the animator Viv hired didn't have a rape fetish but a CNC fetish,2 different things)

Also people take Valentino's dramatic song has Viv sympathizing with him and all that..No,it's legitimately showing more layers of his character.

Also I would argue its meant to make him come off as more of a hypocrite/awful person cause he's whining about Vox being mean to him while abusing and hurting Angel.

Another example is Endeavor from Mha.

I find it so weird how people label him a abuse apologist for simply having Endeavor grow and change as a person and not expects him to be forgiven for his sins at all.

The story makes it clear he can't be forgiven and that Natsuo is not a bad guy or in the wrong for not forgiving him in general but here's the thing,his arc isn't redemption but Atonement.

He's simply trying to get better and make up for all the abuse he put his family through and all the hurt and pain and suffering and Shoto explcitly hasn't completely forgiven him and has grown out of his influence and became a better man then him.

We don't know the status of Rei and his relationship but it's likely they're separated since Enji lives in their old house while having one built for his kids.

And I dunno why people act like he doesn't face consequences but he does..the dude is constantly hit with the fact that he ruined his family and destroyed it for his own hubris and hatred and self gain and basically lost a arm and got severely burned and thrown trash at and his reputation is very likely in the dirt and he's only needed cause they need all the help that they can get.

I would also add Jax here from The Amazing Digital Circus but I think you all get the ghist and also..please Grow Up cause it's clear a lot of these takes come from teenagers who don't understand Nuance at all and just want pure evil Boogeyman and bad guys that they wanna hate and that's why people demand pure evil villains to come back cause anything more then that is too much.

If a character isn't growing or changing(either positive or negative or just in some way)due to whatever trauma inflicts upon them,then thats not character growth or development..it's nothing but Torture Porn.

But of lot of writers(and also Fans)of certain characters seem to think that and salivate at the idea of a character constantly going through more and more trauma and never have them grow out of said traumatic or dark phase of their life/Journey and anytime they make it up somewhere in life,that makes them "boring."

To give a real life example..let's say you have a alcoholic friend who drank a lot and got shit faced and did a lot of fun and wild things when they were drunk but it was very clearly not a good or happy or even high point in their life and they go through this journey to ensure they're no longer a alcoholic and become better and grow into a much cleaner and happier person..only for their friends to more or less be like "Ugh,you're boring and lame now, you were a lot more fun/exciting when you were drunk" and that's sorta how it feels a lot of times when people(like writers or fans)constantly demand characters go through more trauma and pain and misery.

I'm not saying life should be a damn easy breeze but at the same time,they should be allowed to go up in life and gain wealth or/and love and family and all that good shit and not just constantly be in the gutters and broke..like a good chunk of the time,characters suffer to overcome it and come out of it stronger and better or it could be used as a cautionary tale about what happens when someone suffers too much trauma, they can't just suffer "because."

Like Spider-Man in general is a good example cause I real life see people upset and disappointed and such that he has some nice stuff and some basic stuff in his Apartment and I swear, it's like people treat Spider-Man like he can't have anything and i mean anything barely above decent and it feels like a lot of people only find his character interesting when he's miserable.

I dunno if it's cause of projection or whatever but people treat this man's character like it's torture Porn and like he can't go anywhere but up and keep in mind,this is all after Peter Essentially made the world forget who he was and lost his family and the world knowing him but apparently if he had basic necessaries ,that's a No-No.

No wonder the Spider-Man writers constantly have him suffer..the fans are essentially asking for it when they're cheering and over the moon when he suffers

This example also works for Deku cause here's the thing, he did go through trauma.

Especially in his Dark Hero Arc but here's the thing..that was intentionally made to be a low point for him and something for him to learn and grow from,he was actively destroying himself and not sleeping or eating or bathing and it was meant to showcase his flaws and how They're hurting and affecting him and meant to be him overcoming them.

Notice something?

He didn't go through just..cause, it was a lesson.

It was something for him to learn from,grow and overcome but a lot of fans seem to think that this was peak Deku and something that should've continued until the last arc,like Damn..the only time he's interesting to y'all is when he's miserable and suffering and starving/destroying himself?

SMH.

This also goes for characters like Kratos and Thorfinn,2 people who people glazed the fuck out of cause they were angry and young and full of hate and dark emotions and self destructive and hurting others as much as they hurt themselves and once they realized how their flaws hurt others and themselves, they slowly but definitely and surely went on a path of peace and became better men and you would think people would be happy or at least appreciate the character growth but NOPE.

A lot of people were deadass Mad that Kratos was no longer young and driven by rage and vengeance and also people were mad that Thorfinn no longer was a rage induced teenage Crashout and it just has me asking..are y'all meatheads?

Do you guys only find a character engaging when they're traumatized and nothing more then vehicles of anger and rage punching things and crashing out?

This is why I feel like if Zuko's arc came out today, you would have a lot of people complaining about his flaws and him being irrational + him no longer being motivated by anger and stress in S1.

I also feel like Denji is a good example of this trope cause let's be so deadass..all this man did was suffer and suffer and suffer and it's not like it went anywhere for him.

At first, it seemed like that's where it was going in Part 1 and even some parts in Part 2 but it's like Fujimoto didn't know if he wanted Denji to have a happy ending or a tragic ending or a neutral ending so he just went for "ehhhhh..fuck it,i'll just reset it and skip anything interesting and did Asa consent?"

"Uhhhhhh..Reset the world so I don't have to answer that!"

Seriously i thought his protagonists journey and growth and everything would be more thought out and explored and not just hald ass it with some of the laziest shit ever.

But nope,we just get a reset ending cause apparently he was too fucked up,which is a interesting...thing to say.

Seriously trauma should explore a character's way in some shape or form.

A lot of people will claim that they want characters to take accountability for their actions and become better people but when they actually do,that's not enough for them overall.

It's not enough that they realized their flaws and mistakes and took accountability for their choices while thriving and striving to become better people, no..they NEED These characters to be abused and tormented with their flaws and mistakes,they need each scene of them to be the other characters constantly calling them out and calling them bad people and whatever, they need them to arguably die while they apologize for their sins.

See what I mean?

A lot of people don't actually want accountability, they just want to project their dislike and hatred of said character onto the story and other characters and then they get mad when said hatred for other characters isn't shown and they actually do improve and become better people..and it's not even just for characters who are bullies and assholes,I would argue characters who "Fumble"(I'm using air quotes cause a lot of people use that term very loosely)fit cause people seem to think that if said character messes up their chances with a girl they like or if a girl likes them, that's it.

Never mind if they already had a good friendship and never mind the fact that said girl(or boy)they have feelings for or has feelings for them doesn't remotely hate or dislike them and never mind the fact that they can always make things right.

They ruined their relationship with them and said character just hates them and that's just it, they can never fix things and get another chance,they're just supposed to be known for being a permanent fumbler and I don't mean characters like Jax or Mordecai.

Jimmy is being considered one of the biggest fumblers in animation and..gonna be so honest, I feel like a ton of that and I mean A TON of that is due to not only a lot of people white knighting for Kara but also a lot of Recency Bias cause not only Jimmy ain't even the biggest fumbler in his own show but also ,I would argue his mistake(s)with Kara were more blunder and miscommunication on both sides then active fumbling.

He's self critical on himself and lacks self love and doesn't feel like he's good enough +..she just got out of mind control from a evil space virus who used her as a tool to commit mass murders across numerous planets.

Also let's be so deadass, Clark was too passive and hands off("oh they'll figure it out,just let them be)while Lois was too hands on and actively made things worse/instigated the flames between them and another thing people forget is that Jimmy recognized he messed up and apologized to Kara and she didn't even really hold a huge grudge or a grudge in general,she was just kinda upset and disappointed in him.

She was literally blushing and smiling when he hugged her and he stayed with her all night when she got injured and people are like "if he ain't gonna play,pass the controller."

This level of white knighting for a woman is borderline simp level from a lot of her fans and his haters.

Another example of people's issues with accountability is Stolas.

People seem to think that Stolaa is some irredeemable monster who committed sins amongst humanity and that he did all this cause he was some evil sadist and no...yes,he is flawed.

Yes,he was naive and lacked self awareness and coped with his past by romanticizing a lot of things and seeing life as some fairy tail/Romance tale but found it didn't work like that and the lack of power he had in his childhood made him not realize/heavily misunderstand how much power he holds over Blitz,he's a sheltered rich kid who isn't evil at his core but his flaws make things harder for him,just like how Blitz is abrasive and self destructive and messy and didn't think anyone could love it.

A lot of people seem to act like he didn't take accountability for his actions and choices and act like the story always defends him and babies him when..it fucking doesn't?

Vivziepop has said both him and Stolas fucked up,Asmodeus said that Stolas essentially gave up his life for a Thrust,Octavia nor Blitz are portrayed as in the wrong for being upset with him.

In one of the Episode descriptions, it says "Stolas still lacks self awareness" and Stolas's hypocritical behavior and lack of self awareness isn't ignored, it's deadass his character flaws and thing that do punish him and screw him over.

Also he literally lost everything from his wealth to his Status to his home and even his daughter is mad at him and all that, how is the story defending or babying him?

Bakugou is another and my last example of this cause yes..he was a bully but I dunno how people act like that's not the point?

A lot of characters actively don't like him at first and even Deku steered clear of him and wasn't too happy he was in his class and he only began to gain "friends" in the sports festival arc and that's like much later.

Bakugou was a asshole who bullied him due to his own insecurities and issues but since S1,he's constantly been fed slices of humble pies over and over and even his W at the sports festival doesn't mean anything since Shoto didn't even go close to all out.

(The dude even got captured by villains cause he sucked so much as a person).

A lot of characters constantly have commented on his bad attitude and He even failed his Provinional license exam(a massive milestone for him as a hero)cause of his Short temper and ego.

But he takes accountability for his behavior as the series go on,he realizes his flaws and mistakes and insecurities.

He becomes a better person, sacrifices himself for Deku and actively helps him train and become stronger and apologizes for his behavior and becomes a much better hero and man and person.

It genuinely has me asking what more y'all want him to do to prove he's no longer the same person he was before?

Also as a adult,he's just kind loud and sarcastic and such,no one even takes his short temper seriously anymore.

Gonna say it..people don't want accountability, they want characters to face gruesome consequences cause they're projecting their hatred of said character onto others.